Need help with a personal conflict
 

Guys, need some of your expert opinions here. On Friday my association had a senior level and well respected top umpire plead guilty in Federal court for stealing a large sum of money from the goverment. He is still being sceduled games in our local association. I dont agree with the fact that he is still being scheduled games and now tomorrow i have a high profile games with him. our assigner is unwilling for whatever reason to remove him from this game. my question is this. Would you guys remover yourself from the game or just suck it up?

Wow,

Your association has some real problems. If this is a high school game, your state association should know about this right now.

If it's select ball, the problems are just as serious. The fact that they even consider employing an admitted thief, tells me it's time for another association.

If he works, I am not.

What do you mean by stealing money from the government? Is it tax evasion? You can do that without even knowing it. It's different than theft.

I'm just saying that there are good people who make actual mistakes when it comes to money. Stealing from the government is very vague.

Now if it's some kind of crime against humanity, I would not only refuse to work with the guy, I would blow the whole thing open myself. Wide open. Stealing from the government? More info required.

Was the actual act of assigning games done AFTER the guilty plea and AFTER the assigner knew it? If so it's a problem.

If he has games on his schedule that were placed there BEFORE the guilty plea I don't have a problem with them being there but it might be wise to remove them now.

Not an easy decision, but here is my .02
 

UMP,

Here are the questions I think you have to answer:

1. Does working with him offend your conscience to the point that you think it is morally wrong to work the game with him?
2. Can you work with him at this game as a partner, and treat him like any other partner in a game?
3. Are you willing to accept the consequences of refusing to work with him?
4. Does his status as an admitted felon disqualify him from working as an umpire?

In my opinion, I believe you should still work with him. If you or I were his assignor, we might treat him differently. But the assigner has made a decision that he is still eligible to work, and that is his responsibility, not yours. It seems clear that there are no legal liability issues to negatively affect you in the act of working with him. So the questions about working with him revolve around your attitudes towards him.

If he is going to jail for a long time, then his career may well be over in a short time. Maybe a little bit of grace and kindness is what he needs before he pays his debt to society. Maybe you can give him that, maybe you can't. That's up to you.

He certainly will take some hits from the fans or even the players at this game, and he needs a partner who be in his corner during the game on the field. If you can't do that, then don't work the game.

Great question, and I hope the advice helps.

As an umpire, it's not my business to look into the legal situation of every one of my partners. I work the games I'm assigned.

If you're that worried about it, call your state association office and seek guidance.

I'd make sure that he didn't handle my check. ;)

I'd make sure that he didn't handle my check. ;)

IMO, I'm working with the guy and trying to see if there is anything I can help do for him. We, as umpires, are a family. When we have guys in the hospital we go see them. Shouldn't be any different because someone gets in trouble. As long as he is NOT the Sec/Tres. I'm ok..... It seems as if there are so other issues that we are not privy to? "He who is without sin cast the first stone." I think I read that somewhere before:) (what did you expect from a Pastor!)

To expand a moment on the good Pastor's remarks, if I may, are we excluding from our company only government defalcators? How about other reprobates?

1 Cor 6:9-10

More pith from mbyron.

What, exactly, are the misgivings you have?

Do you feel that his presence reflects negatively on the reputation of the association? Do you feel that his ability to umpire is impacted (maybe due to integrity issues?) Something else?

Others might have these concerns, and since we're all independent contractors, we can each decide for ourselves whether to work with such an individual. I've already posted my decision, and I do not presume to decide for others.

The issue shouldn't arise in my state, because my state association lifts the license of a convicted felon immediately.

Quote:
Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

Wow!

That's impressive. But what does that have to do with baseball in the 21st century?

And I still don't know what stealing from the government is, specifically. I suppose it's a bad thing, but there are degrees to everything, and the way the justice system works in this country, I cannot judge a person as bad because this system decided against him on something.

Your statement makes me a little nervous. I love our justice system. It sure beats what's in second place......

He pled guilty. He is guilty. He is going to serve his debt, and he is entitled to fair treatment by all. To continue to work with him is a personal choice. However, as has been stated, MOST professional associations will remove a member for violations of moral turpitude...which includes a massive list of indiscretions..fraud being one of them..Maybe his association needs to revisit the rules for their membership.

You love our justice system? Then, I must assume, that you have had little or no first-hand experience with it.

And, based on part of the rest of your statement, you must have very little knowledge of some of the justice systems found in other civilized countries.

Anyone old enough to remember Bizarro World from Superman comics?

wrong on both accounts....32 years of law enforcement....all levels.....

been had
 

me thinks, y'all have been had.

The Scarlet Letter
 

I would show up and do my job. The personal costs outweigh any personal issues I can have against one individual. I would not give up my $100 bucks to avoid working with the guy. I would not turn down work offered to me because of a partner's indiscretions. His actions would not reflect on my self-worth. In fact this thread is a little too "puritan" for me. I would lose everything I value if I were to turn down an offer to work a game because of my personal ineptitude to get along with questionable characters in one game. Your partner will soon be taking a leave of absence, are you joining him?

I resemble that remark....and I try SO hard not to err....

JJ

Anyone old enough to remember Bizarro World from Superman comics?

The square (almost) duplicate world. Do you remember how the Bizarro United States differed from the Earth United States?

No, don't remember Bizzaro World at all. ;)

I had the Superman issue that introduced the Bizarro world. I remember that Bizarro Florida had a considerably longer peninsula. I think that Bizarro ice sank rather than floated, too. (Just that difference alone would have affected the Bizarro world so severely that it could not have existed anything like earth. But if Superman could throw dinosaurs unharmed from one planet to another, or blow planets back into orbit with his super breath, what's a little sinking ice?)

There was a third difference between Bizarro and Earth (other than the fact that Bizarro was square), but I can't think of it offhand. dash_riprock brought the subject up; maybe he knows.

I remember one story in which Superman showed off his batting skills before a Metropolis home game. He hit one ball out of the stadium, around the world, and back into the stadium. I've checked all my source materials, and none have any information on how you would rule on that if it occurred in a game and the ball was caught by a member of the defense. Another "hole" in the rule book.

Google is amazing:

http://www.comictreadmill.com/CTMBlo..._07/001976.php

Size doesn't matter. At least, that's what I used to tell patients.

Sorry, Finnerty, you are completely full of crap on this one.

I have PLENTY of "first-hand" experience with our justice system, from just about every vantagepoint possible. I also have a pretty good familiarity with the "justice systems found in other civilized countries".

Skarecrow has it exactly right: as imperfect as it is [and I'll be the first to admit that it is VERY far from perfect], ours still beats hell out of whatever is in second place.

As far as the OP is concerned: like mbyron, I doubt I'll ever have to make the decision, 'cause I don't imagine that either my local assn or my state would tolerate a felon on the field. That said, I have to admit that I fully support that position - a person who steals ["even" from the Gov't] IS a "bad person", namely a thief; and while I believe in rehabilitation and redemption, that comes after the "debt to society" is paid, and after some period of "exile" from the community of law-abiding citizens.

I've worked with guys who have been convicted of crimes...some crimes dealing with money, some alcohol stuff, drugs etc...They've done their time, I have no problem working with them. Certainly they'll never hold a treasury spot on our board, but that's a whole different story.

Okay, then; strongly biased.

I have lost two people close to me, and in both cases, it is because of a failure of our justice system that the admittedly biased Scarecrow loves. Another dear person to me had his life ruined by a drunk driver. He spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair. The justice system the admittedly biased Scarecrow loves had the perpretrator out of jail before my friend was out of the hospital. That's a sampling of my experience with it.

To have a curious rating system that automatically puts our system at No. 1 with no cogent argument for it is a little silly.

The plural of anecdotes is not data.

Dishonest much?

Interesting assessment....before, I was inexperienced.....now I am biased....how well you assess someone you've never met....

I've seen many injustices in our system...we all have....but it does work....from my biased opinion.....

Enough.

IMO, what one does (with exceptions that I will not get into in this thread) is THEIR own business.

Different twist.

After the game the "boys" go out and have a few and unfortunately one of them gets a DWI.

Would you work with this person? Should this persons assignments be taken away from him?

We can go on and on. This person most likely has a high profile game because he is a good official and IMO that's all you should be concerned with.

You are not Judge and jury so do the game.

Pete Booth

Doubley sure, at that
:)