Is whining & *****ing more prevalent this year?
 

From my own experiences and those of my peers who share theirs with me in casual conversations...

I don't number a lot of ejections per season, but I did get my first, an early one, on Good Friday (April 2nd). I happened to be working with Bob Jenkins as we annually work the series involving two CCIW rivals. I'll leave the school names out of this to protect the innocent. :D

I tossed the visiting team's head coach because he yelled to me, "You're phucking horrible, Randy!" after I called out his batter-runner for missing 1st base on a leadoff double. (The fact that his B-R stumbled around first, almost fell down, and tried to regain his step while walking right over the bag made the call a bit easier.)

So after I eject him for swearing at me, he yells, "For what? What did I do?" After I politely tell him, he goes bonkers, whips his helmet to the ground, charges me, and bumps me about 4 or 5 times. Oops. Houston, we have a problem.

In the first game of a doubleheader I had yesterday afternoon, in the top of the first inning I called a balk on the home team's left-handed pitcher because he clearly stepped toward home (I was plate man) when throwing to first. It wasn't even a question of being close. I seriously thought he was going to pitch since his foot came toward me but the ball went to first.

The head coach goes ballistic, starts telling me, "You don't know the rule. Learn the rules." He continues such comments from the dugout, including comments about "angles," so much so that even though I am loathe to develop rabbit ears and tend to ignore comments from the dugout, I don't ignore them when a line is crossed or when they won't cease. I attempt to shut him down when starts his "You don't know the rules" diatribe again. OK, Coach, whatever.

The head coach in question then starts his threats by yelling, "You're never working here again. You're done!" He continues these comments between games as the crew is leaving the field. We're on our way back to the parking lot and a good 50+ yards away from the field and this genius is still hurtling these comments.

Flash forward to the evening, when the gentleman who assigned me this game, a colleague of mine, tells me the head coach in question didn't wait until after the day was over to call and complain about me. The @ss called my assignor immediately after the first game ended, in-between games. Wow. I think I set a precedent, because in 33 years of umpiring, I've never had a coach or manager complain about me that quickly.

What makes things worse, I think, is that my assignor tells me that I'm scheduled to see this same team on the road in May, and that I'll "most likely be removed from that doubleheader," with no replacement game being offered.

I can live with being scratched from this idiot's home games because it isn't worth the drive to the neighboring state, but what irks me is this coach might very well be successful in having me removed from his visiting game's contest next month (a local venue), end up costing me some bucks, effectively making this a de facto fine. Granted, I don't do this for the money, but this approach I think is bullschit.

All because of a simple balk call, which brings me back to this thread's title. I've had several of my partners in their games get biitched at like crazy all because they called a no stop balk or the lefty foot balk, etc. So, is it me, or are these coaches just getting whinier?

It's global warming but you're not alone. My partner and I cheated some kids out of a win yesterday - at least that's what the Mom's were discussing. No, I didn't have rabbit ears on. It just made for good conversation for us between innings. I could hear them talking about "that was a ball on that tall kid, but he called it a strike on us..." My wife was sitting right next to them. She got up and left before she said something "out of the way." In the second game, I heard a Dad say "His calls are worse than yours, Blue." I told my partner and told him I was trying to reach his level, but it takes time.:D Never heard a word out of the coaches other than one asking me where a pitch was, once.

I expected to hear crap from these parents - it's a (insert name of city) thing.

I haven't had an issue with coaches any more than normal this year though. Actually, probably less.

I had the opening day game earlier in the year for a series in that same conference, as you know, Randy, and we never heard the end of it. Nothing EJ worthy, but I think they bottled up a bit too much in the off-season and let it all out that day.

Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking maybe I was missing college baseball, but I know now I'm not.

I decided to pack in D3 baseball 2 seasons ago after I ejected a Wisconsin head coach for grandstanding in front of his bleachers after a fair/foul call he had absolutely no angle on (from the coaches box). In the second game, I almost ejected the other coach for arguing an obstruction call I made during a rundown when F3 decided to stand in the way without the ball. My only regret was *not* running him, but I really didn't want to get both of them the same day, so I took a bit more than usual. My bad.

What convinced me I was done with it was when the assigner asked me if I had a good look at the fair/foul call and then asked me if anyone would have argued if I hadn't called the obstruction between first and second. When I asked him why it sounded like he was taking the coaches' side without even asking me what I had seen (or even really reading the report) he told me that he just isn't going to take our word for it.

I knew then it was time to walk away. I quit all three conferences I worked and I went back to being a HS umpire only. In 8 games thus far, I've had one comment from a dugout on a single pitch that wasn't even close to the strike zone. That's it. It's been blissful.

My partner tossed a JV HC in the first game of a JV/V DH last week for cussing at him and the dude had to forfeit for not having an assistant. Then he picked up 3B and tossed it about 15 feet. It would have been a lot more if some cooler heads on the sidelines were not hollering at him to not do that. First time I have seen that in a HS game. B*tching about pitches from the fans is pretty standard stuff around here, so you just block that out.

Whatever works for each of us, yourself included, Rich, is all that matters. For me personally, I quit high school ball a few years ago because of the politics involved and the serious @ss-kissing I was expected to do in order to get in the good graces of the high school coaches. No thanks.

I do enjoy college ball, but I get more biitching from the DIII and NAIA coaches than I do from the DII and DI coaches.

In the situation at hand, I found out that the assignor who gave me the doubleheader yesterday talked to the head coach who told me I didn't know the rules. Summary: the head coach thought I was "big timing" him by telling him I do know the rules and that he was arguing rules with the wrong umpire. Because of this, he didn't want to see me anymore this year. I wasn't scheduled to go to his place anymore, which is fine (a 170-mile round-trip for that kind of ball wasn't worth it), but then my assignor removed me from a DH in May in which this head coach's team was the visiting team, and because my assignor has nothing else for me that day, I lose money.

Great. I make the absolute correct call, the head coach argues vehemently, calls my assignor between games to complain, and I'm removed from a future DH because the assignor tells me the coaches have the right to request not to see a certain umpire. It's one thing if an umpire is incompetent or cannot handle a specific level; it's another thing if it's an umpire with a good reputation and a superb knowledge of the rules.

Sounds like the politics exists in more than just HS baseball there. As it does here in some cases, too.

Why don't you call the assignor and ask him why you should be forced to lose $200-ish dollars because the visiting team's coach is a major league douche? Don't you have a contract?

I assume you didn't really mean that the bolded portion was determistic or even important, but just in case:

There are many ways to balk, but surprising the umpire isn't one of the ways.

And, "angle" is the correct way to decide if a step balk has occurred.

No it's not, and I hope you don't subscribe to the mythical 45* angle all too erroneously assumed to exist.

We don't have contracts for those assignments. The only contract that exists is is between the assignor and the conference to provide umpires. The contract was given to this gentleman with the promise that whenever a coach didn't want to see an umpire, the coach's wish would be granted. To this I ask: why have a conference assignor? Just have the coaches assign, because that's what they're basically doing.

I work for 4 assignors and am one myself. When I assign an umpire to a college game for which I am responsible to cover, the coaches expect the umpires I assign to be competent, knowledgeable, etc. It's more than just my reputation on the line as an assignor.

NCAA 9-1a (which refers to the windup)
(6) The pitcher must step directly and gain ground toward a base in an attempt to pick off a runner. “Directly” is interpreted to mean within a 45-degree angle measuring from the pivot foot toward the base the pitcher is throwing to or feinting a throw.

NCAA 9-1c:
c. At any time during the pitcher’s preliminary movements and until the natural pitching motion begins, the pitcher may throw to any base provided a step that gains ground and is directed toward such base is taken before making the throw (see 9-1-a-[6]).

NAIA uses OBR. There's no such thing as a 45* angle. My original statement stands as correct. Angle had nothing to do with the balk. BTW, yes, an umpire can be surprised by a pitcher's move and call a balk. One of the most common examples occurs when a pitcher from the rubber fakes a throw to first. I've seen this surprise the hell out of umpires, myself included, who often are slow to call the balk because they can't believe what they've just seen.

BTW, even the NCAA knows their own wording is geometrically incorrect, as the angle formed from the plate to the rubber to first base is not 90*. Therefore, half that cannot be 45*. As far as your second rules allusion, I find it rather shocking that you most likely would not have called a balk when a pitcher's free foot goes directly toward home but he throws the ball to first.

Well, you mentioned CCIW, so it's reasonable (but, I admit, not necessary) to assume that the games were played under NCAA rules. But no matter, because OBR uses the terms distance and direction, and direction implies angle.

Sure, an umpire can be surprised by a balk move. But the fact that he is surprised shouldn't be the reason for a balk call.

The NCAA in no way suggests that 45 degrees is half of the included angle between first and home. Instead, the NCAA rule defines "directly" in terms of 45 degrees, and the rule applies at all three bases.

Of course I would call a balk if the pitcher steps directly toward home while throwing to first. Where we may differ is that under FED or NCAA, "directly" would mean within a 45 degree angle from the line connecting pivot foot to the base. In OBR, in principle, but not in actual practice, the angle would be slightly larger.

Since when? The whole concept of angle was removed from OBR interpretation and training of umpires precisely because it was erroneous and confusing and led to splitting hairs in trying to determine a balk. Did the pitcher go 46*? 50*? 40*? Instead, it became a question of if he stepped more toward home than first, he's got to pitch. He has to gain distance and direction toward first. Either he does this toward first or toward home. One cannot have both, and angles tend to lead to just that.

I never said it was. You simply assumed it. I'm beginning to believe your umpiring is based a lot on assumptions. Regardless, one can and surely has called a balk because of an illegal act that ended up surprising the heck out of the umpire.

As someone involved in the NCAA rules process once said at their winter clinics, "We should get away from trying to discern the angle of the pitcher's foot and just focus on where his nonpivot foot goes. If it doesn't go toward the base he throws to, call a balk." When pressed on this 45* angle rule explanation, he advised not to get so hung up on that and that it ought to be removed from the rule book altogether.

I agree.

Why do I get the feeling that if I asked what time it was here, you'd be the only one who told us how to build a watch instead of just saying the time? That's the problem with too many umpires. They look for the picky BS in things or they just make assumptions based on myths. I made a simple call based on an obvious observation and explained it to the head coach in simple terms. I don't doubt that had you tried to explain the balk call, you'd be making the coach's head spin with terminology of angles, 45*, directly, connecting line, etc.

I've prided myself on my rules acumen and the interpretation aspect of them. One thing I've learned through the years is the K.I.S.S. method works in umpiring, too, especially considering the people who are coaching.

Yes, but it's not the surprise factor that made it a balk; it was the illegal act that did.

I think you and Dave are on the same side. Dave was simply saying that if the only basis of a balk is "I was surprised by the move he made," it's not always a balk. Obviously, it takes some illegal act to make it a balk.

I believe Dave would go so far as to say if that's the ONLY basis, it's NEVER a balk. ;)

Dave....thanks for hijacking what started out as an excellent thread by Ump25 about the bit****ng and moaning that we're all subjected to by idiot coaches.

It never ceases to amaze me how when a the OP is a good thread about apples, and oranges get mentioned in passing, someone feels the need to shift the discussion to oranges. Dave, if you want to talk about angles and how they should be applied in determining balks....start a new thread.

BTW, I think it's safe to assume that Ump25 knows a thing or two about balks at the college level, wether the game is being played under NCAA or OBR rules.

Really??? Wow. I never knew that. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Until Honigs starts selling protractors, we are faced with a judgment call.

I've had a coach come out on me and argue that he had 45 degrees as he pointed to the divot that the pitcher's front foot made when he picked the kid off at 3rd. I told him that I didn't have a protractor to determine if it was 44 degrees or 46 degrees, so he was just going to have to live with my call.

The bottom line is that the 45 degrees is a thumb rule, but the actual rule says "directly". If a kid is "fudging" the line, he puts it in my hands and he might not like the outcome. If he will not try and get away with the maximum allowable and step at 35 degrees (a point that is clearly more toward the base than the plate), then he takes me and my judgment out of the equation.

We have all been driving down the freeway at 59 in a 55 mph zone and not been pulled over. But if you get pulled over and the radar says 59, you are subject to whatever penalty the officer decides to give you. He may pull you over and tell you to slow down, he may write you a warning or he could give you a citation. If you don't want to be paying tickets, adjusting your cruise control to 54 mph will save you the hassle.

Don't give them any ideas! It may be a matter of time before they come out with MLB protractors. Of course, amateur umpires will then rush out to get the same thing. :D

That's the only home date in that conference on that day? Why not just swap you with another umpire so all originally assigned get to work?

(Or, tell me what day it is and if I'm open, I'll take the game and withdraw the above suggestion. ;) )

Or they'll draw a line on the field, which will be just as accurate as the running lane. :D

KJUmp,
If you want to talk about apples, oranges and thread hijackings, don't hijack this thread. Start a new one. :cool:

Fifty-nine?? You go down a freeway at anything under 70 around here and you'll get rear-ended. ;)

1. When a coach starts pointing at spots I advise him not to demonstrate on the field. If he continues, he's done for the day.

2. 45 degrees is not, for professionally trained umpires, and should not for other umpires, be a "thumb rule". Did the pitcher step more towards home than first? Then he better pitch.

[QUOTE=UMP25;673479]Thanks for sharing and this thread brings to mind the following:

1. Homers
2. Why there are problems
3. The guilty go unpunished.

Not necessarily in the above order but IMO prevalent.

Here we had one coach bump you and the other follow you all the way to the parking lot and your "assignor" is not mad at them. What consequences if any do these rat coaches get. Oh yeah they get to call the assignor and get who they want next time.

Let's face it the Home coach wants a "homer" an umpire who will "look the other way" and rule in his favor.

This is why it's difficult umpiring today. It's my gut that the personality traits displayed in the OP did not happen overnight. The problem: someone had the audacity to call them "on the carpet"

Others most likely "let it go" so they could get the assignments and did NOT want to upset the "Apple Cart". This is typical in both HS (which I know firsthand) and also College (been told to me by officials at that level)

Ok what is the remedy.

Re-examine your umpiring goals
if the answer is "heck with the BIG game because the "price" is to high to pay" then you look for a different association or call Travel ball (Decent baseball and you can make almost as much money with FAR LESS heachaches)

or Call it a career and do something else

Pete Booth

Which is exactly what I told this head coach and why I called the balk. Of course, for doing my job and explaining this, he calls my assignor, my assignor removes me from a $200 doubleheader road game involving this same team on some weekday in May, end of story.

After last night, I'd have to say yes to the OP's question!

I balked a kid twice in the first inning for not coming set...flapping his mit during the stop which was not discernible. The second time the coach came out for an explanation and told me that I must be really great because I was the only umpire in this kid's 4 year career that had ever called it. I couldn't resist..."I don't know about everyone else coach, but I am pretty good!"

Funny thing, the kid quit doing it after the second balk call!!!

Must be something with calling balks that is making coaches go nuts this year. I had two balks yesterday that both scored a runner. In fact, the home team lost 3-2. Both their runs came off the run-scoring balks, kind of weird after they won the first game 13-8.

The balks were rather obvious, too, and when each time the head coach questioned us, he went away not so pissed. His pitcher actually went the distance, pitching a good game. He just got confused a few times there on the rubber and it showed. :D

Same Suspects, Different Season
 

3 weeks into the HS Season, it appears to be the same suspects are just being themselves. My only problem has been, I have been assigned more games with these yahoos. Last night, doing the dish was a perfect case in point, the visiting coach was whining from the get go about my strike zone, "too low' inconsistant, not calling high strikes", etc.:cool:

The problem with this veteran coach is his players feed off the fine whine he dishes out, I warned him in the 6th when he came out to talk to his pitcher, and used the trip back to the dugout to beetch about the zone again. His starting pitcher, who became the catcher when he blew a 4-1 lead, whined from the mound, whined from behind the plate. The coach has rubbed off well, and of course it spreads to a couple of "Daddy Fans" in the stands behind home plate. Warned the Coach, warned the player, ignored the fans. He ended up blowing a lead and got beat 6-4, dumping him down in the league standings, I'm sure I was the reason his team lost.:eek:

In General with a dozen Varsity contests and 3 JV games under my belt, 9 or 10 behind the plate, I'm thinking it's no worse than previous years. The loser/whiners are still just that, The quality coaches that know the game, complain on occasion, but never let it get to them, or make it personal. After all they are just being coaches, the others are being and are "Jerks", nothing has changed.

Thanks...I thought this thread was about the beetching coaches,then when I read it all, it had turned into umpires going at each other about Balk calls....let's stick with the idiot coaches and start new thread for Balks.:p

Yeah, I was going to ask where the speed limit is still 55. I thought they got rid of that stupid law. I'm with Sammy Hagar on that one...I can't drive 55.

We change tires at 55 out here!;)

Oh, just to make TheShadowKnows and KJUmphappy... b*tching coaches suck!

That's because there's always an anal umpire who feels the need to start nitpicking and be overly and unnecessarily analytical. These are the guys who think that they can find fault in anything everyone here says.

I am a little late to this thread, but why didn't you warn and then eject this guy?

I'm having a problem with the phrasing of this one part.

I try my best to not eject someone, Durham, and because it was the first inning of the first game, I admit I bent over backward to not eject him right away. True, it shouldn't matter what inning it is, but at the time he didn't cross that line that results in an ejection--at least to me he didn't. I am sure I could have easily been justified in ejecting him at some point, and perhaps I should have, but in hindsight, it didn't matter. I was off his Christmas card list regardless.

I am not singling out any specific person by name, Kevin, but what I think I'm trying to say is that it seems whenever someone posts here about a play they handled or a rule/ruling, SOMEone has to reply and pick apart or nitpick or find fault with such OP's handling of the situation, even if the OP happened to do everything perfectly.

I lump such people into the category of those who don't give the time when asked what it is; instead, they reply with instructions on how to build a watch.

I would hope that someone would slap me once or twice if I end up being too nitpicky or anal about something.

I gotcha. I was trying to make fun of nitpickery myself.

I'm an advocate of K.I.S.S., despite the fact that I have in my career violated this (much less often now than in my earlier days, fortunately).

I rarely eject anyone, but I never get in the way of letting them eject themselves. I am not certain that this guy would have been ejected if I had the same situation with him, but I am rather certain that he would have had a warning in the 1st inning. After that he would have had the option to stay or go and I would not get in the way of either. If you had it to do again might you warn him in the 1st after you let him have his say and he kept at it?

Well, I didn't use the word "warn" or anything like that, but I did tell him I had had enough of the "rules" discussion and that the "debate" was over. :D