Another reason to get rid of aluminum bats
 

Pitcher makes a heckuva play on it, but still comes away with a broken kneecap.

YouTube - Vanderbilt pitcher breaks kneecap, makes outstanding play

Herb Score - Wood Bat.

Bryce Florie - Wood Bat.

Steve Yeager - Wood Bat.

The non-wood bat specs have changes a lot since your referenced incident. Only the current data would be relevant.

Great references Rich. I was at the game when Florie got drilled. He had no time to react at all.

The other thing we need to make clear is a wood bat handled by a buffed up MLB batter is no different than a metal bat in a HS kid's hands. The results are going to be the same for the infielders (not necessarily the full flight of the ball).

Jim Kaat - Wood Bat. I was at that Twins game, and he lost his front teeth.

JJ

You MUST be kidding.

You have a gift for hyperbole, but this one's the best ever, Ozzy.

The main discussion with Al bats is that the ball is kept in play more than with wood bats. More fair balls definitely would result in more injuries however, in this case the knee happening to be in the way of the ball, has nothing to do with what caused the flight.

It's kind of like saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" ????!!!!

In either case, in most instances, one does'nt necessarily have anything to do with the other.

This discussion is silly: baseball is risky, and injuries occur no matter what kind of bats hitters use. Anecdotal evidence proves nothing. Who ever denied that you could get hurt in a wood bat game?

More than raw data about how many player injuries per 9 innings occur in games with aluminum bats would be data about the severity of the injuries. That would provide a richer picture of the safety differential.

I think he's trying to say a ML player hits the ball as hard with a wood bat as a HS player does with a Al bat.

I can buy that.

Then I have a lot of stuff I'd like to sell.

Yes, that was my point.

Top of the first in a varsity HS game Tuesday, #3 batter hits a fastball straight back, hitting the pitcher squarely in the mouth with the ball. The young man lost three teeth and broke his chin bone. Had to have surgery. It was a sickening sound upon impact. He was still standing when I got to the mound from the plate, but hit his knees and spewed blood all over my shoes and pants. Kid is doing well, according to his coach.

Well, my point is that there are a mere handful of high school players, who can hit a ball as hard as even a common major leaguer, no matter what they're using.

Whatever you say, Kevin. :cool:

Wow, very sad. Hope he's doing alright.

I'll add another to the list:

I remember Mike Musina took one right off the head many yrs ago - tough to watch.

All I can say is that a game played by wood bats on average is completed in at least 15 minutes to 1/2 hour sooner then metal. (PRO ball excluded)

Also, since the players went to metal bats I have set up in a deeper B / C position then I normally would if they were using wood bats. Almost "bought the farm" a few times with a shot off of a metal bat.

You do not get those "cheap" hits with wood as you do with Al bats. I have seen hitters jammed but with metal they still get those bloop base hits and that just drives the pitchers crazy.

I am NOT saying that I have not had a gem of a game when the particpants used metal but on average throughout my career the games are quicker when they use wood.

Other then economics I can't see using metal at the collegiate level because the "next stop" for those that are fortunate enough to make it is PRO ball where wood is used. Those HR's they hit in college are now a "can of corn" in the PROS.

All in all I prefer to umpire in a wooden bat game any day of the week compared to metal.

Pete Booth

Add Beckett to the list?
 

Beckett hit in the head Added: 04/10/1000:244/10/10: Josh Beckett is hit in the head by David DeJesus' single but stays in the game

Is there any other sport in which high school and college teams play with equipment so substantially different and illegal in the pro version?

Had a game 2 years ago, AAU National Tournament @ Cooperstown. Pitcher took one in the head (I was in C) and I thought it killed him... The ball continued in flight to the outfield where the left fielder caught it. I reacted to the pitcher getting hit and killed the play (I really thought the worst). Happy to report that pitcher was ok (call it a miricle). One of the worst, and hopefully the last, plays I have been part of.

Pastordoug,

Did you call the out on the catch?

JM

Yes, out on catch.... Might have had more outs if I hadn't killed the play because we had others on base. But my first instinct was for the pitchers safety.

I am the original poster. This past weekend at a tournament I was officiating an 11 year old pitcher was hit by a line drive on the cheekbone. His cheek split open and his face became a bloody mess. It lloked like he would need several stitches. Hopefully it did not break a bone in his face.

Is that with or without steroids, Kevin? ;)

Another Pitcher Gets Nailed......Ouch
 

Chris Jakubauskas of Pittsburgh Pirates on 15-day disabled list with concussion after being hit in head with line drive - ESPN

Oh yeah, wood bat....

I was thinking the same thing.

Peace

Oh yeah, Major League baseball player...

You are right. No one else but Major League players could be hit in the head. I will keep that in mind the next time I see a high school player that throws in the 90s. One is playing on the Red Sox right now that I once had. Or better yet, I have never seen a college player throw that hard either. :rolleyes:

Peace

Once again you have shown you either can't read or don't read. No where in my post do I suggest such a thing. I suggest that wood bats in the hands of HS players would not result in pitcher's getting drilled as often. Further I will suggest that if MLB players played with metal, pitchers would get drilled more often.

But only a semi-illiterate would come to the conclusion you did.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste, Mr. Rutledge, but in your case, whether you use it or waste it, the result appears to be the same.

It is clear you cannot take a position without getting personal. This is very typical of a man that is not confident in merit of his position.

Secondly, this could happen to anyone if the ball is hit back at them and that is the point. And I am not the only one making this point or sees why this would only apply to aluminum bats. But then again, I guess all of us are stupid because we do not have "Mr." on the front of our name. And the only reason this happens I guess if I use your logic, is the speed of the ball coming off the bat. I guess every kid has equal ability to react to the ball coming back at them too. Or better yet, has the pitching mechanics to allow them to react appropriately. Then again, I forgot who I was talking to.

Peace

No, not all of you.

Good bye Mr. Rutledge, you will be keeping KF company on the ignore list.

But you responded anyway????
 

LOL!!!!

Thanks for showing us all that your point of view is ignorant.

BTW, put me on your little list. If you were a man, you would not need a list to behave the way you want to. Just shows you are not that and never will be.

Peace

Well, the times will be a changin soon
 

This is the URL for the FED rules survey:

2010 NFHS BASEBALL RULES QUESTIONNAIRE Survey

Or:

NFHS | NFHS 2010 Spring Sport Questionnaires

Along with all the other things in the survey, there are two questions of interest for this thread:

Part III- Would you be in favor of:

2. Mandating wood bats only for high school competition.
3. Mandating dual-flap batting helmets that meet the NOCSAE standard on all pitchers.

I am for wood bats, and against helmets, but with the way things are going in this country and it's drive for a no-risk world, it would not surprise me if the lawyers decided NFHS should mandate helmets with face masks for pitchers in the near future.

And if the chair of the FED rules committee is correct, as he stated in a recent post that "While high school baseball is one of the most safe team sports there is in high school, 80+% of what injuries they have are to the lower extremities (legs, knees, ankles) and 80+% of those injuries occur during sliding..." we will see some rule changes about that too.

BTW, one other part of the FED survey:

Would you be in favor of:

1. Eliminating the allowance of head first sliding.

ESPN running that play 400 times since it happened last weekend is not a good thing for the game...

It came really close a few years ago to add helmets for pictures, but there was someone that helped talk them out of that reality. I think they will change the bat before they change the rule to make helmets be worn. But then again states will probably override the NF anyway as wood bats will cost money and might be harder to produce. Let alone all the people that will claim it will affect the environment. Time will tell I guess.

Peace

No, some of the most beautiful plays involve a head first slide, and also you get some of those at first base that are very effective.

I do like the idea of wood bats, its getting really dangerous for pitchers.

But, cost effective? Don't know if the schools will go for it.

Thanks
David

They toned down bats with BESR.

In 2012 they're getting toned down more with BBCOR.

If they mandate wood someone will STILL get hit in the head with a batted ball.

Helmet? Heck, mandate an L-Screen.

I have always felt they should quit screwing around with bats and use restricted flight baseballs instead....a lot less pricey....
Hey! Nerf FED Baseball!

JJ

The baseballs, depending on their endorsed use, do have different CORs already.

Dumb down the ball too much and we'll be moving fences in so players can hit HRs.

Pictures of what?

So that everyone will feel better. :D

Peace

I come from a background where you have to prove your information. Just saying that going to wood would eliminate injuries is silly. That is why I agree with your statement here.

Peace

I don't know that anyone has said otherwise. The question is would players get hit with the same frequency and severity with wood bats as with metal bats? Unfortunately we don't have accurate stats about this at the youth, HS and college level before they went to metal.

Local Tragedy(s)
 

Freak Softball Accident Results in Man?s Death, Teenager Collapses at Basketball Game | Loudoun Independent

Saw this on he news tonight. Ironic that we've been talking about it.

On the tv news it said he was hit more below the ear than throat. Whatever......

And this was softball.....hey, it can happen.

Sad.

Here's one that wouldn't have happened with metal bats
 

I was there last night. It was scary:

Boy hit in head by broken bat at Milwaukee Brewers game - ESPN

Ever play softball with a Red Dot? Those suckers are as hard, if not harder than a baseball. I don't know why they call those rockets softballs.

MLB Brains on Steroids
 

MLB millionaires continues to thumb their nose at the issue while hiding behind a small statement printed on the back of every MLB ticket. MLB and it's commissioner refuse to support a safe alternative. Both broken bats and foul line drives will continue to injure numerous MLB fans each year. MLB can easily mandate some cheap 10 foot netting to extend from each dugout to the backstop netting already in place to put a stop to these senseless injuries. The clock continues to run on MLB ...

While we're at it, why don't we enclose all of the stands in plexiglass? Foul balls are dangerous, too.

Don't add more netting. The number of these cases every year are so small. By adding the netting, you're taking away the chance for any play on a foul ball the defense could make against the wall.

Yes, hockey recently expanded their netting, but pucks hit into it were already out-of-play. By adding netting to baseball, you're putting some balls out-of-play that could have otherwise been playable.

New here-- I post more often on the basketball board, but these are my 2 cents:

It seems like the most dangerous areas are in/above the dugouts.
The players are safe with at some fencing at most parks. Why not the fans?

Netting there will not interfere with any balls.

I will use the analogy of what happens in racing. Fences and other things in racing, you still have people that are killed because of something falling off a car. Now I have not heard of any fan killed in baseball because of a bat or ball flying into the stand. Even hockey that was several years ago. I think when you buy ticket to certain events; there is some reasonable risk that you take when you sit in certain seats or any seats for that matter. You can only put the netting so many places without obstructing the view of the field or playing area. And if you obstruct the area, then more people will stay home. I do not see this as a major problem as I saw even in the hockey situation because many people do not get hurt. And right or wrong that legal writing on the ticket takes some liability off the organizations because it is kind of a contract. Anyone can sue, but I think if you are going to have kids in an area where they can get hurt, then get different tickets. But in baseball that is hard considering all over the park someone can still come in contact with the baseball.

Peace

Another Pitcher Goes Down.....
 

I pretty sure ARod not using an aluminum bat so what's your point? You want a net for the pitcher?

Nope, not my intent at all.

If you start all the way back at the beginning of this thread we have discussed quite a bit about the velocity of balls hit with wood vs aluminum, discussed instances of HS, College and MLB pitchers getting hit (see post #2 and #4 for example), and posted other links.

I was merely posting the latest example of a pitcher getting hammered with a non-aluminum bat as I believed it to be germane to the discussion (plus interesting, terrible, and terrifying to watch).

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Update
 

A pretty good 8 minute ESPN story on metal vs wooden bats and an injured a HS student.

OTL: Bat Debate - ESPN Video - ESPN

What irritates me the most is the bat manufacturers talking out both sides of their mouths. One minute, they say that their bats are the best and provide the most power, the next they say there is no difference between their bat and a wood bat.

Nothing nationally will happen the next couple of years with the new BBCOR specifications coming out except the manufacturers getting extremely rich as every college bat will need to be replaced next year and every high school bat replaced in 2012. In the least, I hope the goal to make these new bats more wood-like will be accomplished.

How long before pitchers masks become mandatory? I see it coming. OTOH, I've personally seen (in softball) both a pitcher and a 3rd baseman struck on the mask hard, who still made the play and had no injury - without the masks, both would have been bleeding or concussed and likely out of the game.

Sad News Today
 

Should be headline news in the morning. Accident took place at a MiLB game.
Reported on Fox 9pm tv news channel minutes ago.

The sensible thing would be to ban such events or activities that can lead to any injury. Period.

+1.

Update - Article from USATODAY
 

As injuries mount, debate over metal baseball bats continues - USATODAY.com

From the Article:

Moreover, both want to see improved safety measures in the youth game — Sandberg a return to wood-only bats, Schlesner the use of helmets by pitchers — for one common reason.

"We just don't want anyone to have to go through what we've been through," Sandberg says of his family, which lives 10 miles north of San Francisco, in words echoed by Schlesner, from just outside Cincinnati.

sad story, but a dumb story because its nothing but speculation by the writers. No facts or anything to back up his claim that "metal bats caused the injuries"

Baseballs caused the injury, not the bat. But I do see wish the youth leagues would get on board with the bat standards. Some have done away with big barrels, but others still allow them. Some have a length/weight ratio and others do not.

I guess it will take a law suit before some of them make a change.

thanks
David

I personally think that all moral and just people should never rest until all baseball bats are made of balsa.

I'm sure there have been several injuries caused by flying Wii controllers. Those should be made of closed-cell, low-density foam to prevent such injuries.

Now, where did I put the phone number for my congressman?

Yep my grandson "injured" his mom's TV with a "flying Wii controller. As for the bats and balls...wiffleball anyone?

Nope. The plastic bats and balls don't biodegrade. They're harmful to the environment. Ban 'em.

I'm suing Nintendo right now because an airborne controller broke my 63" TV - there were no warnings on the box that this might happen, so obviously they are at fault.

I've got "Blackberry Thumb".......now, where's the number for RIM's Attorneys? Hmmm, maybe I'll sue Uncle Sam too as they made me have one! Ba$tards! ;)