Illegal slide--FED rules
 

R1 stealing, F2 drops pitch.

R1 safe without a play, but makes (minor) contact beyond the base with F6, who is just standing there.

R1 out, or nothing? I said to the complaining coach that there was no play, so nothing, but I'm not 100% sure I was right. By rule I seem to be, but since FED has a penchant for case plays and rulings contrary to the rule book, as well as a hyper-propensity for "safety", I'm never sure if I missed something.

Anyone?

Publius,

You should have told the complaining coach he was right - there was contact beyond the base. Then call obstruction, and put the runner on 3B.

Sorry, just dreamin'... On to your question.

Did the runner slide or go in standing up?

JM

Slid. and ended up with knees on top of the bag.

Had there been a play, I would have called him out for the illegal slide. The rule, as I recall it, refers to an out for a runner sliding illegally and making contact with a fielder in the immediate act of making a play.

The exact language of 8-4-2 is: "does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play."

The "illegally alters the actions" clause gives us a lot of leeway.

I concur with mbyron. I got "nothing" on this - and the complaining coach is starting to get me pissed off.

JM

This seems to have gotten a lot of attention so let me add something to the mix..... First I agree that on the OP I've got nothing. Now, according to the FED rule. it seems like if a legal slide was made and that legal slide does not illegally alter the actions of the fielder contact beyond the bag should not be called as INT.... The only issue I see is a runner sliding "completly" past the bag causing contact which IMO could prevent a play on runner.... But I am seeing players come hard into the bag sliding past the bag but not beyond. I remembering seeing a discusion along these lines before....

If the runner slides beyond the base and makes contact with the fielder, it is, by definition, an illegal slide. Altering of the play is not required for there to be a violation.

I don't see a difference between "past" and "beyond" the bag. If the runner's foot goes beyond the bag, that is enough to make the slide illegal, assuming there is subsequent contact or altering of the play.

Let me try this: According to FED they define a "legal slide" as..... (don't have my book handy) This portion of the rules (OP) deal with an "illegal slide" which uses the word "and/or". IMO if there is a "legal" slide that does not alter the play, even with contact past the bag (by this I mean still within distance of touching bag as opposed to beyond) no INT..... Sliding past in and of itself doesn't define illegal? I'll look up the definition when I get home unless someone post before....

No play, no foul...unless the contact was malicious...then you have an ejection on the runner.

Parsing your sentences is a bit like wading through jello. But yes, sliding past the bag and making contact is in itself an illegal slide. But illegal slides are penalized only if they affect a play.

Ok..... I was wrong. FED 2-32-2c says sliding beyond and makes contact OR alters the play of fielder it is an illegal slide..... OUT. How many have called this when the slide didn't have any impact on the play? Did you get any flack from coach?

Actually, it just defines an illegal slide; it says nothing about an out.

8-4-2-b, as previously mentioned, defines when an out is called for the illegal slide. On a steal, it requires a player in the immediate act of making a play. The OP didn't have that. As I said earlier, if it had, I would have called the out.

I was, and am, with JM and mbyron--I was just wondering if there is some FEDLANDIA interp superseding the rule, as there seemingly so often is.

In this case, it appears not.

Dask Rock said quote: "If the runner slides beyond the base and makes contact with the fielder, it is, by definition, an illegal slide. Altering of the play is not required for there to be a violation."

The rule as I stated says if the runner slides beyond the base and makes contact (does not require a play) then the runner is OUT.

You said quote: "Had there been a play, I would have called him out for the illegal slide."

I was just wondering how many have called OUT for contact with NO PLAY...

You cited 2-32-2c, which defines an illegal slide. That rule does NOT say that the runner who commits an illegal slide is out. You added that.

For penalties you need to look at the interference rule, and there's no interference without a play to be interfered with.

No one.

R1 stealing, F2 doesn't handle the pitch and has to chase it. There is no throw to 2nd. R1 slides past the bag and gently contacts F6. Are you going to call R1 out for interference?

No way.... I am not sure why I concluded that some were saying that contact beyond the bag without a play is a out? I can see now, thanks for making that clear, not true.... I have never called a runner out for that so the reason for my comments....

I really enjoying this forum for this very reason.... Thanks again...

Please forgive me but after re-reading the rule for the .... time, let me print as written and then let me know again what you think please....


8-4-2 ... Any runner is out when he:

8-4-2b ... does not legally slide and causes illegal contact AND/OR illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play, or on a force play, does not slide in a direct line between the bases.


mbyron said quote: "But illegal slides are penalized only if they affect a play."

I am not saying I agree with the rule but again, it seems clear to me that mbryon's statement is not true?

dash rock said quote: "R1 stealing, F2 doesn't handle the pitch and has to chase it. There is no throw to 2nd. R1 slides past the bag and gently contacts F6. Are you going to call R1 out for interference?"

I replied "no way" but by FED rule it looks like it's an out....

Why the big fuss? I thought last week at a game I had (I'm new to this area) the HC said something like "blue what about the contact after the slide?" I said something like, "there's no play"

Doug,

The illegal slide penalty applies if there is contact with or altering of the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play. No play, no penalty (except for other stuff, e.g., malicious contact).

I'm not sure what you're missing. An illegal slide alone is not penalized. Look at the rule you quoted:

8-4-2b ... does not legally slide AND causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play

An illegal slide by itself is nothing (unless it's malicious contact). It's penalized only if it affects the play, that is, by causing contact or alters the actions of a fielder.

Illegal slide = nothing

Illegal slide + contact = Interference

Illegal slide + altering the fielder's actions = Interference

If you can't understand that, perhaps you shouldn't be officiating HS ball.

I undearstand completly.... you (mbyron) said quote: "there's no interference without a play to be interfered with" and then turn around and say
quote: "Illegal slide + contact = Interference"

????? Please tell me what I am missing?????

I don't think I said an illegal slide alone is cause to bang someone, but /i did say that the illegal slide which causes contact regardless of whether a play is being made, by FED rules is an out...... Didn't say I would call dask rocks example but just trying figure out what you are saying? Can't be both ways...

Not trying to be agrumentative either. An if in your opinion a guy trying to better himself by studying the rules, asking questions.... well not sure how to respond.

It's the AND/OR of the rule I think that gets either overlooked or again I am reading to far into it... To me AND/OR means just that.... can be both OR just the latter.

Right, I think I see the problem.

How would you have contact without a play? A fielder just standing on the base? Only in little league...

Thats right.... And sometimes I feel that HS ball here is just that.... LL