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-   -   Teach Tee Something, #3: (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/57668-teach-tee-something-3-a.html)

bob jenkins Tue Mar 23, 2010 09:58am

Teach Tee Something, #3:
 
Play: R1, R2. Batter swings and misses for strike 3. F2 fails to catch the ball which rebounds in front of the plate. Both runners attempt to advance. BR, thinking he can run to first, takes off and UNintentionally collides with F2, preventing an easy play on R2 at third.

Ruling: ?

jkumpire Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:01am

Well,
 
I've got nothing.

PeteBooth Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 670077)
Quote:

Play: R1, R2. Batter swings and misses for strike 3. F2 fails to catch the ball which rebounds in front of the plate. Both runners attempt to advance. BR, thinking he can run to first, takes off and UNintentionally collides with F2, preventing an easy play on R2 at third.

Ruling:
?

FED does not contain the OBR language in the comment section under OBR 7.09(j)
nor does FED support "weak interference"

There is a FED case play that talks about B1 unintentionally kicking a ball and the ruling was Nothing but in your OP we are talking about a player.

Ruling:

Since B1 K'd he is out (assumption we had less then 2 outs and 1st was occupied at TOP).

If in the judgement of the umpire the defense could have made a play on another runner then the other runner is called out in this case R2.

I am work so I do not have the FED rule reference handy.

Pete Booth

bob jenkins Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteBooth (Post 670094)
FED does not contain the OBR language in the comment section under OBR 7.09(j)
nor does FED support "weak interference"

There is a FED case play that talks about B1 unintentionally kicking a ball and the ruling was Nothing but in your OP we are talking about a player.

Ruling:

Since B1 K'd he is out (assumption we had less then 2 outs and 1st was occupied at TOP).

A couple of clarification points.

1) Any rules code (well, at least FED, NCAA and OBR). The ruling might be different.

2) This isn't an instance of "backswing" (or "follow through" or "weak") interference.

3) Yes, fewer than 2 outs. BR is not entitled to try for first base.

BaBa Booey Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 670077)
Play: R1, R2. Batter swings and misses for strike 3. F2 fails to catch the ball which rebounds in front of the plate. Both runners attempt to advance. BR, thinking he can run to first, takes off and UNintentionally collides with F2, preventing an easy play on R2 at third.

Ruling: ?

Here's my $.02. I don't have a rulebook handy so no citations. As the umpire, I cannot read the BR's mind, and I don't know if he's taking off to 1B because he thinks he has a right to or because he wants to interfere in some way. I assume by "unintentionally" colliding with F2 you mean he doesn't make it obvious he is trying to interfere. At this point I would kill the play, the batter is already out on stikes so you can't call him out on the interference, so you call R2 out and send R1 back to 1B (assuming that there were no outs to begin with.) I feel this is similar enough to the BR interfering with the catcher making a play on a stealing runner on strike 3. Bottom line, the BR did something he shouldn't have (run towards first).

Here is my rationalization: You've got a fielder attempting to make a play (F2) and a BR already put out interfereing (regardless of intent). You've got to penalize the offending team, so I would call out the runner on which I believe F2 was going to make the play on.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

GA Umpire Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:50am

For OBR
 
I'm going to say I've got nothing. 7.09(e) Comment, I have nothing unless intentional.

MrUmpire Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaBa Booey (Post 670103)
Here's my $.02. I don't have a rulebook handy so no citations. As the umpire, I cannot read the BR's mind, and I don't know if he's taking off to 1B because he thinks he has a right to or because he wants to interfere in some way. I assume by "unintentionally" colliding with F2 you mean he doesn't make it obvious he is trying to interfere. At this point I would kill the play, the batter is already out on stikes so you can't call him out on the interference, so you call R2 out and send R1 back to 1B (assuming that there were no outs to begin with.) I feel this is similar enough to the BR interfering with the catcher making a play on a stealing runner on strike 3. Bottom line, the BR did something he shouldn't have (run towards first).

Here is my rationalization: You've got a fielder attempting to make a play (F2) and a BR already put out interfereing (regardless of intent). You've got to penalize the offending team, so I would call out the runner on which I believe F2 was going to make the play on.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Agreed.

TussAgee11 Tue Mar 23, 2010 02:11pm

7.09e comment means his mere presence of advancing is not to be considered interference. It says it right there... "shall not by that act alone be considered [interfering]".

Yes, his advancement is not interfering. But by hindering or impeding F2s play on another runner after he has just put out is interference, and 7.09e gives us our penalty, "such runner [that the play was going to be made on] shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate."

It is indeed the same rule that is used on the "batter you're out on strikes, runner, you're out on the interference" on the typical steal play strike 3.

bossman72 Tue Mar 23, 2010 02:56pm

The batter is not entitled to run. Say he did this on a dropped strike 2 thinking it was strike 3 and the same play happened.

If R2 was stealing, I would call him out on interference by the batter.

Had this been strike 3 with R2 only (BR entitled to run) then this would be nothing.


In an NCAA game, the ball is dead and all runners return by rule.

Steven Tyler Tue Mar 23, 2010 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaBa Booey (Post 670103)
Here's my $.02. I don't have a rulebook handy so no citations. As the umpire, I cannot read the BR's mind, and I don't know if he's taking off to 1B because he thinks he has a right to or because he wants to interfere in some way. I assume by "unintentionally" colliding with F2 you mean he doesn't make it obvious he is trying to interfere. At this point I would kill the play, the batter is already out on stikes so you can't call him out on the interference, so you call R2 out and send R1 back to 1B (assuming that there were no outs to begin with.) I feel this is similar enough to the BR interfering with the catcher making a play on a stealing runner on strike 3. Bottom line, the BR did something he shouldn't have (run towards first).

Here is my rationalization: You've got a fielder attempting to make a play (F2) and a BR already put out interfereing (regardless of intent). You've got to penalize the offending team, so I would call out the runner on which I believe F2 was going to make the play on.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

While it has been said a batter cannot not disappear, he just can't materialize in certain spots.

Interference is interference. Agreed with this remedy to the solution.

Sco53 Tue Mar 23, 2010 09:13pm

The batter is not entitled to run. Say he did this on a dropped strike 2 thinking it was strike 3 and the same play happened.

If R2 was stealing, I would call him out on interference by the batter.

Bossman: In fed you should call the batter out for the interference and return the runner with less than two outs. 7-3-5-c

bossman72 Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sco53 (Post 670221)
Bossman: In fed you should call the batter out for the interference and return the runner with less than two outs. 7-3-5-c

Well, in the original play, the batter is not a batter anymore when he strikes out (nor a runner since he is not entitled to run). He is then considered another teammate, so the "batter's" interference rule would not apply.

bob jenkins Wed Mar 24, 2010 07:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72 (Post 670158)
In an NCAA game, the ball is dead and all runners return by rule.

Reference, please.

I generally agree with those who have this as interference, R2 out, return R1.

I took the question from the NASO yearly quiz. The question made me think for a bit. I'm not sure I would have correctly ruled on the field, at least not initially.

Skarecrow Wed Mar 24, 2010 07:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72 (Post 670234)
Well, in the original play, the batter is not a batter anymore when he strikes out (nor a runner since he is not entitled to run). He is then considered another teammate, so the "batter's" interference rule would not apply.

Disagree. He is a batter at the start of the play, same as any other batter who interferes. The ball hitting the catcher's glove doesn't change batter's role after the pitch is delivered. He is still the batter for interpreting BI.

bossman72 Wed Mar 24, 2010 08:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 670274)
Reference, please.

I generally agree with those who have this as interference, R2 out, return R1.

I took the question from the NASO yearly quiz. The question made me think for a bit. I'm not sure I would have correctly ruled on the field, at least not initially.

7-11-h AR2 Exception

But after reading that, I just caught the end that says "unless runners are stealing on the pitch," so it's the same in all codes.


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