Rules Test
 

I'm confident that I know the answer to this, but I'm having trouble finding the rule. Please site the rule in your answer.

"With one out and runners on second and third, the batter hits a single to left field. The runner on third touches home while the runner on second misses third and scores and the batter-runner missed first and safely goes to second. The defense properly apeals the runner missing third base and then appeal the batter-runner missing first. One run will be scored."

True or False - again, please site the rule or case play.

Rules 8-2-6k page 47 "If a baserunning infraction is the third out, runs scored by the following runner(s) would not count".

The run that scored was not "following."

Case 8.2.1 sit B

True...

OBR -

4.09a - no runs score because batter/runner was retired before reaching 1st base for the 3rd out.

If you flipped the appeals, one run would score because none of the 3 provisions in 4.09a would have been met.

I see your logic.

However, what has had me perplexed (and I just found 9-1-1a, and 8-2-6K) - the third out was the B-R prior to reaching 1B.

What has me quesitoning myself is - Is the play at 1B a timing play, or is it simply the third out at 1B before B-R reaches 1B?

I see the point and when I get back will do a little more research. I was quoting fron FED book... But might lean towards no runs due to BR not leaglly gaining 1st.

The latter.

Sorry - I didn't clarify - this is FED rules.

TussAgee's rule is still applicable as a FED rule.

Doesn't matter, except for the specific references. If the third out is on a force, or by BR before reaching first, no runs can score.

That's what I was thinking.

The above posters are correct. No runs score.

Passing a base in my understanding is the same as touching it until of course an appeal.

And here in SC...
 

...we'll have fun and a likely ejection, since we don't do appeals in FED ball. Don't ask me why, we just don't...if we see it, we call it. If we don't, we don't. In the case of this play, we'll likely be ejecting the OC after explaining to him why his run will not count. Or, ejecting the DC if U1 didn't see the B/R miss first base from the C and the DC saw it...

SAY WHAT?

"we don't do appeals in FED ball."

Please enlighten us? This IS, 2010 isn't it?

Not in South Carolina.

What dash said...

For whatever reason (my eighth year of FED ball and I still don't know the reason behind it...maybe lawump will read this and chime in...) we do not do appeals in South Carolina. If we see an appealable play, we call it. The burden is not on the defense to appeal, it is done automatically (assuming it is seen by the umpire).

That said, the longtime head of baseball in the SC High School League has retired, so maybe this quirk will be on its way out soon. I can only hope...:D

That used to be the FED rule. The reasoning was that in no other sport did the official note an infraction and wait to be told about it by the offended team before ruling on it.

FED changed the rule, but SC stuck with the "old" rule.

Thanks for the (amazingly) simple explanation, Bob. It really isn't 2010 here in the Palmetto State!

I had my doubts about a lot of things down here in the Louisiana, when I moved here a couple of years ago but, I feel a lot better now.

Don't tell me they did not adopt the pitchers ability to turn there shoulders before coming set also.

Well truely, when in Rome ...............!

Nope, just the appeal rule. Though the gorilla arm is getting a lot of talk in our meetings this year.

Do you actually have a rule about the order of the calls? Presumably the runner from second missed third before the batter-runner missed first; but what if it didn't happen in that order?
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INFANT ZOLOFT

It's the order of the appeals that matters, not the order in which the infractions occurred.

Except in SC where there are no appeals. The ump is supposed to call it right away. It would have to be in the order in which the infractions occurred.

The "old" FED rule had the infractions called at the end of playing action (not "right away") and the defense could choose the order that gave them the advantage.

I assume SC is still the same way.

Yes, we call them at the end of playing action.

South Carolina
 

SCarolina Blue is 100% correct. There are no appeal plays in South Carolina high school baseball.

I won't elaborate, but the reason has to do with some high ranking persons in the state who had some hurt feelings and refused to go along with the FED when it changed its rules to adopt an appeal rule 10 years ago, or so.

While I always had a good relationship with the assistant director in charge of baseball who just retired, the fact is that he refused to change the state high school league's stance on this rule. However, now that he is retired, as President of one of, if not, the largest high school umpires association in the state, I am lobbying hard to adopt the appeal rule for 2011.

I can state positively that every high school umpire association's "official position" is exactly the same: that the rule should be employed in SC.

Wow - that could get interesting. So the miss wasn't even announced 'til playing action was over? That could cause the defense to make a play on a runner who was already (soon to be) out.

That's no (or at least not much) different from the current appeal rule. And, iirc, the defense could make a live-ball appeal during playing action (just as they can now) if they so chose.

Well don't I feel stupid. Maybe I should put that crack pipe down once in a while.

Going back to the original post in this thread: we actually discussed that situation in our rules meeting on Sunday.

I asked the group, "what would happen in South Carolina?" Everyone quickly agreed that we would call the runners out in the order that we saw them miss the bases. (If we saw R2 miss third before the B/R missed first, then we would call them out in that order and no run would score).

Everyone seemed quite satisfied with that answer until I (as the discussion moderator) pointed out that the plate umpire would have the responsibility of seeing the touch/no touch at third base, while the base umpire would have that responsibility at first base.

Suddenly the room got very quiet. I took the temporary silence as an opportunity to further point out that if the umpires are doing their jobs, how exactly are we going to determine which occurred first if they occurred at or near the same time?

After which I saw a lot of blank faces in the room. I then told them if they have this play, when they get home they will have to go to this link on the South Carolina High School League website: On Line Ejection Form - All Sports.

This is another reason we need the appeal play in SC. Because with the appeal play, the defense determines the order of outs, not the umpires.

At least you were honest!!!:D:eek: