Balk Talk
 

I have to give one this Friday and I've been cramming today. I may have various questions throughout the week. I'm going to start with a few now. In advance, I appreciate anyone's insight.

I'll be focusing on FED rules.

1. It struck me that FED is a bit more strict than OBR at least with respect to penalties. It seems that many things in OBR that would be balks with men on base are "don't-do-thats" with no one on base. But in FED, with no one on base, based on the penalty at the end of 6-1-3, these things are at least illegal pitches, with a penalty of a ball. Am I right about this?

2. I'm probably being a little picky here. FED 6-2-5: It is also a balk if...he places his feet on or astride the pitcher's plate, or postitions himself within approximately five feet of the pitcher's plate without having the ball. Isn't the part about being "on or astride the pitcher's plate" superfluous if it is already a balk if the pitcher is within five feet of the pitcher's plate?

3. I have an old list of balks that I'm sure I got off the internet. One of them is, "Steps toward occupied third and then turns to throw to first without first disengaging the rubber." This agrees with the Evans' video. But my list goes on to say, "The HS pitcher is allowed to make this move with or without disengaging the rubber." Is that true?

That'll do for now. Thanks again.

A balk is a balk FED or OBR...the difference in FED for the most part is that nothing can happened after the balk. The pitcher must gain distance and direction to first base. In the 3B to 1B move, 3B must be occupied and before the move to 1B the pitcher must disengage the rubber before throwing to 1B...basically he can't feint to 3B and spin to 1B all in one motion. At least I think that's what you're talking about in your post.

Lapopez,

1. I, in general, I find FED balk rules a bit "pickier" than OBR rules. You are technically correct that under FED rules, actions which would be considered balks with runners on base are treated as "illegal pitches" with no runners on base - and penalized by a ball added to the batter's count.

In my experience, it is unusual for an umpire to "see" one of these infractions when there are no runners.

johnnyg's assertion that "...A balk is a balk FED or OBR..." is patently incorrect. There are a number of actions which are NOT a balk in OBR that ARE a balk in FED. There is also one action that IS a balk in OBR but is NOT a balk in FED.

His assertion that the ball is immediately dead upon a balk in FED (unlike OBR, where the ball may or may not become dead depending on what happens next) is correct.

2. I would agree that the pitcher would have had to get within "...approximately 5' of the pitcher's plate..." in order to be "on or astride", so the wording is a bit superfluous. I was told by Kyle McNeeley that the intent of the rule is to prohibit the pitcher from stepping on the "dirt circle" of the mound (a la NCAA) without the ball. The "approx. 5' " language was put in to accommodate schools with fields that have "skin" infields.

3. This is the one action which IS a balk in OBR and is NOT a balk in FED. OBR rules explicitly prohibit the F1 from remaining engaged on a "3rd to 1st" move, while FED rules explicitly permit it. Despite johnnyg'a assertion to the contrary.

If the pitcher does choose to remain engaged, he must THROW to 1B - not merely feint - and a legal step is to 1B is required.

JM

Would you please refer me to this? Thanks.

Lapopez,

FED (2009) Case Play: 6.2.4 Situation C: Ruling.

JM

Thanks. I had just found it in Rules by Topic. I'm good with the first 3--Probably more tomorrow.

thanks for pointing out what I failed to properly articulate in words...i need to continue to improve there...on the field I think I do a pretty good job (while always trying to improve)...maybe I'm reading #3 differently than you are reading it. I guess my assertion was leaning more toward that it can't be all one motion (move to 3B, and in the same motion spin and throw to 1B)...in other words, a all-in-one motion spin move would be illegal in FED too...no?

As UmpJM said, FED allows F1 to throw to 1st while still engaged but he must step there first. Stepping to 3rd then to 1st is not going to be one continuous motion.

Under other codes, a step towards 1st is not required because F1 must be disengaged to make the throw. At that point, he's an infielder.

Lapopez,

Another major action that is a balk in Fed but not in OBR is the pick-off attempt from the Wind-up.

In Fed, from the Wind-up position F1 must disengage legally from the rubber if he wants to throw to an occupied base in a pick-off attempt. In OBR, from the Wind-up F1 can step directly from the rubber to an occupied base in a pick-off attempt (of course, prior to committing to the delivery to the plate).

When I have to teach balks, I find it useful to begin by teaching what is permitted rather than what is prohibited. The following apply to FED rules.

From the set position with runners on, F1 must come set and then may:
1. pitch to the batter
2. legally disengage
3. step and throw or feint to a base (no feint to 1B)

From the wind-up with runners on, F1 may:
1. pitch to the batter
2. legally disengage

In my experience, 98.5% of balks result from violating these permissions and can be explained as such: "started and stopped," "no stop," "no step," etc.

Focusing on permission rather than prohibition will help novice umpires with the 98.5%.

Added 1/11/10
 

4. I know the pitcher shall pitch while facing the batter. Maybe I need some background on this rule. How could and why would a pitcher violate this rule?

It's a relic that's "never" violated today. Ignore it during your talk (or use it as humor).

Lapopez,

I'm with Bob on this one.

The rule is a "hold over" from the days when the pitcher was constrained to a "box" rather than to contact with the pitcher's plate.

Some of the more creative pitchers developed "freak" deliveries, some of which involved delivering the pitch while the pitcher's back was to the batter in an attempt to keep the batter off balance and disguise when they actually released the ball.

The rulesmakers decided they wanted to eliminate the freak deliveries, hence the rule.

With the pitcher constrained to contact with the rubber and delivering from either the set or windup position, it is virtually impossible to violate 8.05(f) while pitching from windup or set while in contact with the rubber - though I suppose someone could come up with a way if they really tried.

One thing that is fairly common is to see the F1 do a "look back" during his delivery at 2B when there is an R2 in an attempt to hold the runner. That is perfectly legal and NOT a violation of 8.05(f).

JM

oh, the pick off from the wind-up is a good one. nice add.

Added 1/11/10 No. 2
 

In my list of balks, the following two are consecutive:

a) Pitches from the windup position without maintaining contact with the rubber.
b) Pitches from the set position with his pivot foot outside the end of the rubber.

5a. Was it deliberate that these were presented consecutively? What I mean is, was the author purposely distinguishing the windup and set? This bothers me because (a) should apply to both the windup and the set.

5b. Regarding (b), is it practical to be very strict on this, especially in light of the way Evans presents this in his video where he said it is acceptable for the pitcher to at least have half of his foot adjacent to the rubber?

well, it is two different types of pitching motions. in the wind-up, the pitcher moves his free foot differently than when he does from the set.

5b. my thoughts would be to enforce the rule as it's written and to not be overly strict. others will chime in as well, so you can decide what you want to train.

Lapopez,

I'm not clear exactly what you are asking, nor what your "source" is (in re: ...was the author distinguishing...).

So, I'll just share some thoughts I hope you find relevant.

In regard to your 5a, I would agree that the requirement is the same whether pitching from windup or set. The purpose of the rule is to constrain the distance and, to a lesser degree, angle from which the pitcher delivers.

Note that, despite the wording of the rule, ALL pitchers lose contact with the rubber before the ball leaves their hand on EVERY pitch.

Sometimes, the "hole" in front of the rubber makes it problematic for the pitcher to maintain contact. I'll make appropriate "allowance" for that.

In regard to 5b, I follow the Evans guidleines, again making appropriate allowance for the condition of the rubber/mound. And, I believe the constraint is the same, whether the pitcher is pitching from windup or set.

I can't see any significance to the "pairing" or sequence of the two proscriptions.

JM

Ump JM wrote (regarding not facing the batter while throwing the pitch):

"With the pitcher constrained to contact with the rubber and delivering from either the set or windup position, it is virtually impossible to violate 8.05(f) while pitching from windup or set while in contact with the rubber - though I suppose someone could come up with a way if they really tried."

I think this video has made the rounds with many of us on these boards, but anyway, here's a funny YouTube video of a baseball game where F1 does exactly that:

YouTube - Funny: Perfect Pitch

copy and paste to "Funny: Perfect Pitch"

just a little humor...

Thank you, JM. I did find your comments relevant. With regard to what you wrote above, do you adhere to Evans even on the high school field?

Sometimes there's no better interp...if the rule is the same.

Added 1/12/10
 

I'm probably being picky again.

6. From my list, one of the noted balks: "Pitches when the catcher does not have both feet in the catcher's box." Since the rule says the catcher shall have both feet in the catcher's box at the time of the pitch, I would prefer to substitute "Initiates a pitch" for the word "Pitches". Agreed?

7. Ok, what's the deal with rotating and pumping? Is this an old relic too? I think I can picture rotating, but what is pumping?

Sure

Raising the hands over the head. And, yes, it was popular in the earlier parts of the 20th century.

It's my understanding that way back when, there was a pitchers box, similar to the batters box. The pitcher could start at any point within that box and run up and pitch. He could twist and turn during this, literally starting his motion home with his back to the batter. I belive and may very well be wrong, but I do belive it came from a Rounders rule.

The rule doesn't say that at all. It says the catcher must stand in the catcher's box until the pitcher delivers the ball, which can be considerably after the time of the pitch (used primarily for placing runners). The balk penalty is limited to when the pitcher is giving an intentional base on balls.

I'm at work now and I don't have my rule book with me but I have my paper that I will present on Friday. I have from 6-1-1 that the catcher shall have both feet in the catcher’s box at the time of the pitch. Is that wrong?

Sorry - didn't realize you were referring to the FED rule. You have it right.

The old list of balks that I have seems to encompass OBR and FED and I am trying make it specific to FED, which is why I am being picky about the wording.

In FED the catcher must have both feet inside the catcher's box until the time of the pitch. 6-1-1
The time of the pitch is defined as the pitcher making any motion that commits him to pitch. 2-28-3

JJ

The so-called "catcher's balk" really comes into play only with intentional BB. Since FED permits the defense to request an IBB verbally without throwing a pitch, it doesn't come into play.

Of course, to prevent idiotic things the rule must still be there, but I can't see actually calling it unless the catcher's an idiot. And even then I'd stop play and find out what the hell's happening first.

So if you're mentioning 6-1-1 for the sake of completeness in covering balks, fine. But IMO it's a waste of valuable time to spend more than 10 seconds discussing it.

FED doesn't limit it to the IBB like OBR does. But I agree discussing it for more than 10 seconds would be a waste of time.

Thanks. Do you guys think it is a waste to talk about the two pumps and rotations. No pitchers do that these days, right?

If it were me, I'd quickly review the rules and mechanics of balks and then focus on the 6 or 7 most common ones. Demonstrate those so that your trainees will recognize them when they see them.

Also be sure to explain why the jump step and jab step are legal moves, why it's impossible to balk to 2B, and the rule about throwing to an unoccupied base. That will help prevent your trainees from calling legal moves a balk.

I don't recall whether you mentioned a time limit, but just doing that much will take an hour or more.

Lapopez,

I had to make these adjustments about balks when I crossed over from Babe Ruth BB (OBR) to high school BB (Fed):

Here are two actions that are not balks in FED but are in OBR:

(1) F1 while in the stretch prior to bringing his hands together is allowed to abruptly and quickly turn his shoulder toward first to drive back a runner (as long as there is no significant arm movement). This would be a balk in OBR. 2009 Fed CB 6.1.1(J)

(2) F1 is allowed to throw (or feint a throw) to an unoccupied 2nd base even if a runner at first just feints an advance to 2nd. This would be a balk in OBR. Fed Rule 6.2.4(b) & Fed CB 6.2.4(A)

Now here is an action that is a balk in Fed but not OBR:

F1 must come to stop with both hands together level with the chin or below. Anywhere wholly above the chin is regarded as a balk. However, in OBR F1 can bring his hands together and stop above his head, at his forehead, etc. Rule 6.1.3 & CB 6.1.3(M) & CB 6.1.3 (N)

Here are two more:

Stepping and throwing to a base from the windup position.

Not coming to a full stop from the stretch with nobody on base (by rule, an illegal pitch (ball) although I don't know anyone who would call that).

"...Not coming to a full stop from the stretch with nobody on base (by rule, an illegal pitch (ball) although I don't know anyone who would call that)..."

Dash, I'm sure most everyone would agree with you on that unless it were a quick pitch...

Related to these last few posts...I see this often: A pitcher, pitching from the set, comes to his set before the batter is ready, maybe even before the batter get's back in the box after a swing. I can't say it's a quick pitch. He may give the batter plenty of time to get ready and more time after he is ready. I usually make the pitcher restart and come set after the batter is ready. But is this by rule?

While it is bad pitching mechanics to come set before the batter is ready, as long as F1 does not pitch to the batter until both feet (of the batter) are in the box, there is no violation. Once the batter puts both his feet in the box, F1 can technically pitch the ball.

If F1 is coming set before the batter is in the box, F1 has to remain motionless unless he pitches (violation) or steps off. Which brings me to another point. Why are you "resetting" anything here? Why are you preventing a possible balk by F1 not keeping still? What you are doing is not preventative umpiring, you are medaling with the game here! If F1 pitches too soon, that is a quick pitch and a violation with an award. If F1 balks, that is a violation and an award. You are an umpire, not a coach!

I have been reading this thread and it is obvious that you do not really understand FED rules nor do you understand balks. This takes time, experience and study which is fine. What I do not understand is why you are presenting this to anyone (with your limited knowledge). Maybe I missed something somewhere but it seems that you are holding a class or clinic which means that those you are instructing will be walking away with more question or worse, have the wrong answers! Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding here.

Thanks for your opinion. I will reconsider resetting the pitcher in this situation in the future. However, while I find it necessary for both of the batter's feet to be in the box before the pitcher pitches, I do not find that to be a sufficient indication that the batter is ready.

If the pitcher is deliberately trying to catch the batter off guard, it is a quick pitch even if the batter has both feet in the box.

You are correct. Do not let the quick pitch happen. If the pitcher starts his delivery when the batter is not looking at him, call time, and be loud about it. Bark at the pitcher: "Wait 'til he's looking at you!"

You can't call a quick pitch (because the pitch wasn't delivered), but you can prevent a situation where the pitcher throws a pitch when the batter isn't looking, only to have him look up just in time to see a fastball 6" from his face with no time to react.

+1

Stop it before it happens. Tell the catcher not to give signs until the batter is ready. (And, by the same token, be sure the batter is not delaying.)

Well, today is the day
 

Thank you to all who contributed. I appreciate the insights. Notwithstanding Ozzy's comments, even before this thread, I was not worried about the material. I'm a little nervous about the public speaking part though. I will present the material and I have an assistant that will demonstrate. My audience will probably be 50/50 coaches and umpires. I believe I have come up with a very nice handout summarizing the pertinent FED rules followed by a list of 25 examples. Eventually I'd like to convert this to a Powerpoint presentation and incorporate the differences with OBR.

Thanks again.