Gerry Davis Crew get its right!
 

Just had a double play in the World Series...lots of confusion around second base (catch/no catch) and then a tag out at first.....Confusion...huddle, and then the right call by the Crew....Nicely done by Davis and Crew!

No question about it

Thumbs up for Gerry Davis - he's been doing a great job tonight. But then, when has he NOT done a great job? He's always steady, relaxed, has great timing, and doesn't get caught up in the heat of the moment.
Just like all of us...;)

JJ

That plate presence of his that you just highlighted so eloquently: it's a good package of skills and command to try to emulate.

I use that stance of his, and it is very relaxed and effective.

Davis is a great umpire.

And the third base coach of the year award goes to ... Sam Perlozzo, for wheeling his center fielder into a home plate collision with a 6-0 lead in the ninth inning! :rolleyes::confused:

Where are the Gerry Davis stance bashers tonight? They should take note how well it works for the mystro, and for those of us who use it, we should aspire to do as well.

Amen!

And once in our lives we should each be granted the privilege to call a pitching clinic by a pitcher like Cliff Lee. He just dominated one of the best offensive teams in the last decade. If Rollins doesn't try to pull an Ozzie, Lee could have a World Series Game 1 shutout on his ever more impressive résumé. Amazing performance!

Although not a shutout, his ERA for this game is zero since the run scored due to an error.

If he stays on this roll for the rest of this series, he'll go down with one of the greatest post-season performances in history. Hershiser's 1988 is the best since divisional play began, but they didn't have that third series back then. Lee is unconscious right now. If he can do this again, to the Yankees, and the Phillies win it, well, it's going to be hard to find anything any better.

I know he invented the dang stance... but...

Everytime I see him work I am amazed of how balanced, relaxed, and smooth he looks.

Not true. That stance had been used years before Gerry made it popular.

Well, I was going to take the rest of the night off until you asked!;)

Outstanding pitching by Lee. When he made the behind the back catch, you just knew it was his night. Great job.

Yes Davis was and is smooth and relaxed however , I thought he missed too many pitches myself. With that type of pitching though it it had no bearing on the game.

The TV strike zone box leaves a lot to be desired also but then again I may not have perfect vision 1500 miles away either.

A New Direction
 

As I was watching the game, I noticed that the jackets the base guys were wearing look different than normal. Upon further review, thanks TiVo, while my wife sat next to me rolling her eyes and calling me a dork, I noticed the following changes: new fabric (not the nylon shell, but that wet-suit type stuff), full zip (not the 1/4 zip), zippered pocket over/behind the MLB logo.

Does anyone know if these are available to the public, or have they been around and I am just out of the loop (which is very possible, after the season ends I check out entirely for a good month or 2 to clear my mind)?

Can any of you "link-sters" out there post a link to this play if it's available?
Thanks.

JJ

That is THEIR job and the call was NOT that difficult. IMO, there was no NEED for a huddle.

What we do not know is if U2 said "We have a catch" , "we have a catch" on the INITIAL play by Rollins. I saw U2 signal the out but you couldn't tell if he signalled the out because Rollins touched the bag or on the catch.

IMO, the "huddle" took too long.

After the play, U2 should have simply said I had an out on the catch. Then U1 would say I have out on the tag of Matsui by Howard. This should have taken all of say 30 seconds yet they huddled for some time.

They are the BEST of the BEST and IMO, the call was NOT that difficult. Yes they got it right but it should not have taken so long. Also, an easy explanation to the coaches.

So while you say nicely done That is their job. We all have jobs and we are paid to perform them. IMO, no different here.

Pete Booth

I agree that it was technically the right call, but it was still imperfect umpiring. The second base umpire signaled out before the shortstop tagged second, but a much quicker out call on the line drive would have avoided the confusion for the base runner.

The first base umpire called Cano safe (when he was already out), so he added to the confusion. I suppose if Matsui had gone back safely to first and then walked off because of the safe call, the umpires would have put him back on first base after their huddle.

Matsui should have been alert and seen the line drive being caught and gone back to first, but this was not a play for which to pat the umpires on the back.

I have Gorman emphatically pumping the out on the catch well before Rollins went to the bag. It was a mess out of a common play, but it was a clear catch, a clear and emphatic signal (50,000 can make too much noise to hear ''catch"), and the eventual tag of the runner that wasn't forced. The Phillies' players played it smart, and it got messy. But unlike some of the calls we've seen lately, the end result was correct.

what i dont get is where you have confusion.. Brian Gorman right way was given the signal for a out.. like 8 times he gave.. Sold that call for me.

Not the 1B ump responsibilty to see if it was trapped or caught. He reacted to the SS going to the bag and then throwing to first. The SS going to the bag confused things.

Imperfect umpiring? What are you talking about? You just said he signaled out before SS tagged the bag. Well that happened approximately 2 nano seconds after he caught the ball. Watching what happens and then signaling is the sign of good umpiring , not imperfect umpiring. Quick decisions, and quick signals get you in trouble.

Its obvious you have spent little time umpiring or playing this game because people do not reacte as fast as you think. Could have, would have, and should have is only realty when being an armchair umpire.

Kevin I agree but why the long huddle?

This should have taken all of 20 seconds to resolve.

U2 would have said I had an out on the catch by Rollins
U1 would say I have a tag on Matsui off the base

End of huddle. Easy explanation to the coaches.

IMO, the huddle should not have taken that long.

Pete Booth

I guess Gorman pumping the out three times before Rollins touched the bag is not enough for some. Maybe if he jumped up and down?

No, but he should know the status of the ball. If he did, he would not have called Cano safe.

As others have said, Gorman sold the crap out of the catch. If the ball had been trapped, I'm sure he would have given a safe (no-catch) signal followed by an out on the force.

I think U1's call on Cano may have confused Matsui into believing he was no longer entitled to 1st base, and he was out on a force at 2nd. I'm not trying to excuse his poor baserunning, but I don't think it was a good job by U1. He should have known it was a caught fly. He has to watch the play at 1st, but Gorman's catch call was well before anything was happening at 1st base (watch the ball, glance at the runners).

I also agree with Pete - why did it take so long? Unless they were considering putting Matsui on 1st because his confusion resulted from U1's call on Cano.

I'm with you. U1 should have read the out on the batter and not signaled anything on the play at first. Matsui was dead anyway.

It's pretty obvious to me that you don't know jacksh*t about umpiring.

I am not so sure 1B ump saw a clean catch, and thenwhen SS goes over to 2nd and then throws, well that could have put more doubt into his mind. I just not ready to throw him under the bus for the safe call.

Without a doubt though I agree, way too much time to discuss a somewhat routine play.

Whether or not he saw a clean catch is irrelevant - Gorman signaled the status of the ball, and his call was big and emphatic. It should have been obvious (to another world series umpire) that he was calling a catch.

it was a pop fly/line drive.. what in the heck do you mean a quicker signal.. as soon as it happen he signal like 8 times.. watch the guy dude. the 1b umpire wasnt looking at the catch...and he should have signal safe.. then thats was they got together.

What was he looking at then? If he would have read the play and his partner, he could have gotten into position for a possible appeal play if there had been one. There should have been a no call on Cano. Since he made a call on Cano, I believe that's why the meeting took a bit longer than usual. The question of "where do we put Matsui?" It was obvious to me that U2 made a call on the catch versus the front end of the double play. Maybe it wasn't as obvious 90 ft away to U1. Since he wasn't looking at the catch, I wonder what his reaction would have been if the SS threw directly to F3 in order to double up Matsui? I would think it would be better to react to the play and your partner rather than the players.

Gorman only got a fist and half a pump in before the touch. He did get 3-4 pumps in before the catch at 1B. I put this out there knowing a flood of negative will probably come my way for it, but...

Wouldn't it have helped if Gorman had pointed in the direction of the catch, instead of just using the fist pump? I know some will see this as possibly calling a trap, but technically the signal for that would be a safe.

I don't know how you would say that. I think his assessment is pretty accurate, other than wanting a quicker call.

It's pretty obvious to me that you judge rather quickly.

Let's see here...I made a statement that is very similar to the following statement, but you chose only to comment about what I said, and gave jicecone a pass. What's up with that?

Sounds like he said the same thing, only in a nicer way. Calling it "imperfect umpiring" gave me insight into his umpiring ability and/or experience, that's how I could say what I did, and I stand behind what I said.

I think Umpmazza meant to say "shouldn't have signaled safe." Probably an error of omission rather than commission.

I posted about that before when I noticed them a while back. It's an umpire version of the ThermaBase team jackets that you see coaches and people in the dugouts wearing. I have a Chicago Cubs version of the jacket -- it's pretty warm, but it's also pretty expensive compared to the other types of umpire jackets we wear at $120.

No idea on their availability, but they would be nice up here where most of the spring games are done in the cold. Layering up works, but I'd prefer to just have a thicker jacket.

Actually Steve, I thought it may come across politically incorrect, so I let you say it.

But I can not lie, I did thunk it.

Hey, let's hear it for Jeff Nelson, who works the scissors stance! Yeah, scissors!!!

No scissor bashing allowed tonight, all you haters!


Me, circa 1992:
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/q...egoSteve/8.jpg

I'll bash the scissors whenever I want. However...

Keep in mind, I wasn't even old enough to be a batboy for that game in 1992.

Nice fence.;)

You're right. I missed that one, should have dished it to jicecone as well.

I just didn't think it was right to get all over this guy just cause it was his first post.

Uh oh....

And Nelson has such a nice zone going.

JM

Yeah, my wife took pictures like Mona Lisa Vito.:rolleyes:

I had somebody shoot some nice action photos of me at a game a few weeks back, but they never emailed them to me.:mad: Fans...just can't trust them.

Gorman's having a rough night.

I used to work in places with that kind of fence in front of me....it was much better than the chicken wire in some OTHER places I worked.....:D

JJ

Have you checked at the Post Office? They might be there....

JJ

Actually I thought we were doing the guy a favor. wonder if he grows up to be a baseball announcer like McCarver (heaven forbid), at least he can say he learned early in life that umpires do not show up at games to try and mess them up. They legitimately try their best to get everything perfect.

But if I ever see him in person, I will be glad to give him a hug and tell him he should be glad me and Steve straighten him out early in life, being the liberal person I am.

It was a simple call!!!!!!!!
 

No need for a summit meeting. OMG they about blew that call also. The umpiring in the post season has been a big joke and embarassing for MLB.

Hey Tony,

Shake yourself man. It is a freaking game, and aside from one guy falling victim to bad base running at 3rd base that caused him to have a brain fart it has been pretty damn good. The catch/nocatch at first base was a tough angle for any of us. Do you know who is responsible for that call in a 6 man and do you know where he was standing? As for the play at first base last night, do you understand the angle that the guy had and the physics of that play? That was a whacker at full speed and could have gone either way. I think that the big league guys working to get so far in to see "open glove" may have pulled U1 a little to far in to see the foot hit the bag, but either way it was close, I mean in super slow the ball was 4-6 inches from being in the pocket of the glove. I guess the MLB should hire you ehhhh?

As a bitter Tigers fan....I still do not forgive Leyland for not starting Kenny Rogers in game 5 of the 2006 World Series

Rogers line for the Postseason that year was pretty good, as well.

3-0
0.00 ERA
23 innings pitched
19 K's

he was full juiced and ready to go and Leyland said...well, we have to win 3. NO, JIMMY! You have to win ONE then ONE then ONE. ARRRRRRRGh

Watching the game last night with family, somebody exclaims angrily "the ball was 6 inches away from the glove when the runner touched the bag. SIX."

My response: "yup, you're right, traveling at about 70mph or so. You realize that that is less than .01 of a second."

Hey Durham, what's that "open glove" thing you mentioned? I've been out of the loop for a couple years, admitedlly. Reason I ask is I've been all over the 1B ump in the WS last year (can't remember who) who kicked the call at 1B on the great diving play and glove-hand flip by Jamie Moyer. 1B ump was obviously was to close and listening for the thud, and of course that was rather silent. I've been miffed not because he missed a call (poop happens to the best) but because I thought he got way too close. So that may have been proper "new" mechanics???

The way it was explained to me is that they want to get an angle that allows them to see the ball enter the open glove. Not just the 90 degrees that is taught at umpire school, but actually see the ball enter the glove. That way they are sure they have a catch and not something else. Remember the play at the CWS where U1 didn't see what everyone else saw on the ball be bobbled and trapped on the opposite side of the fielder away from U1. He called the runner out when every replay showed what U1 could never see from where he was even though he had a good angle on the play and the throw, but they way it got caught at the bag blocked him out. Also watch how MLB guys go out on balls now. They go out and develop an angle that will allow them to see he ball enter the glove, the work very hard to get where they need to be to see the ball go into the glove. Hence "open glove"!
ome good friends that are AAA sups and guys that I work with in the PCL have done the best they can to explain to me, but I wasn't in spring when they went over it there.

Ask your self this. Ever wonder why on a ball to 2nd we take a step or two off the line inside and the MLB guys go way in and look like they are gonna get hit in the back of the head on TV some times?

The angle sucked...but it was his call...nothing he could've done differently.