Bucknor, Cuzzi pay the price
 

It appears both have been replaced in the WS crew.

What did Bucknor do wrong? I thought his plate job in the LDS was very well done.

You don't remember his two plays at first?

Base umpiring screwups are catching more attention than plate work.

Must have slipped my mind with all the even bigger screwups that have been happening lately.:rolleyes:

Who is on the WS crew? I had not seen where the WS crew had been announced.
I guess I was (incorrectly) under the impression that if you worked either the DS or LCS you did not work the WS....that the crew was made up of six different umpires who ha dnot worked the earlier rounds.
How do you know about Bucknor and Cuzzi? Just curious.

News from the Associated Press - newsjournalonline.com

Here's the story>>>>

If you work the division series' you can work the WS.

That's most of the story. The original WS crew was selected from umpires having done the first round. Both CB and Cuzzi were on the crew...no more.

Now there was just another one. I saw him as safe while lying on my back in bed through squinty eyes on a 20" TV. What is going on here????

And in the same inning McMouth (McCarver) had to correct himself 3 times...and he gets to write down and practice his judgements (facts) before hand!!

I always get a real kick out of Fieldin.:)

Why was he lying on your back? :eek:

Anyone else notice tonight's PU "commenting" on just about every pitch? Doesn't say "ball", says "no, that's down" kind of stuff. Glad to know I'm not the only one who does that, though I don't think I do it NEARLY as frequently.
It would be interesting to watch a game with that PU microphone up loud enough to hear throughout...
JJ

...and just as I post that last comment, they replay the check swing strike three with the exchange between Culbreath and Posada....:p

JJ

He's not even the only one on his crew. Bill Miller was doing the same thing when he had the plate.

Thanks ociffer. When do you get your gold shield?:rolleyes:

Yes, Bill Miller was quite the Chatty Cathy back there. He makes me look like Silent Bob.:cool:

Yeah, maybe they need instant replay in the damn booth for those bozos, who make many more mistakes than the worst umpires in the universe. Maybe these jokers should have to sit out the playoffs because of their poor performances. Then they would see what it's like.:mad:

My .02
 

This is a shame IMO.

After the regular season body of work that gets an umpire into the playoffs, it seems pretty rough to dump as guy because he made a bad call or two on TV. Even if the call is awful, one call does not a season make.

Some or most of the stuff going on around around these gross misses by MLB umpires is very justified. But if umpire X is good enough for a playoff series, he should be good enough for a WS assignment, even if he blows a call in the DS.

Now, I was too busy working games to see a lot of the DS's, but my impression is that none of these blown calls meant one team lost a game or a series. Even the misses in game 4 of the ALCS meant nothing to the game's ultimate outcome. If Tim C gets both calls right is the score 11-1 instead of 10-1? So what?

Don Denkinger's famous miss at 1B in game 6 of the 85 WS for the Royals is the only gross missed call that cost a team a game in a playoff or WS I can remember. Please pass along others if you remember them.

I get the feeling these two MLB umpires got dumped because MLB is trying to get the press off its back about the calls. If they were dumped from the WS crew because they were graded lower than other guys in the DS's, fine. But it sounds like from what I read, these guys are the people MLB is throwing into the jaws of the "gator" so MLB is the last one eaten alive by the press.

But having said all that, it is discouraging that the guys at the top of the profession are making themselves look bad in front of millions of people.

Wrong. The Cardinals' piss-poor performance cost them game 6 and 7. Not the call.

All these calls on the bases in the post season reminds of two of Evans favorite quotes:

The first, the ever popular, "Surpirse is an umpire's worst enemy."

The second and less known: "The grass is where the snakes live."

The call only cost them Game 6. Game 7 was lost due to piss poor performance. (I can't help but think of how Douglas C. Niedermeyer would say piss poor performance.)

Rich Garcia not calling fan interference on Jeter's fly ball that was turned into a home run.

His call in game 6 caused the Cards total collapse in game 7?

WOW!

Don't you know? Denkinger put on Joaquin Andujar's uniform and smashed a urinal after getting pulled down 11-0 in the fifth inning. Or was he Bret Saberhagen tossing a 5-hitter?

And for the teams too. Just because they got beaten in the first round is no reason to ban them from the second round. Right? :D

Basketball and football officials have to earn their way to the next round. Why should MLB do it differently?

and the Baltimore Orioles were never the same after that 1996 incident......and it still stands to this day......

An interesting update on Mr. Jeffrey Maier from Wikipedia

In 2006, he became Wesleyan University's career hits leader and was featured on ESPN. The New York Times reported that Maier hoped for a career in baseball. That spring, the Washington Post and MLB.com reported that, ironically, the Baltimore Orioles might draft him--:eek:--though the team denied ever having an interest in him. [7] Maier was also invited to a tryout for a number of prospects, held by the New York Yankees. However, he was not selected by any team in the 2006 Major League Baseball Draft

How can you say that? Cuzzi's blown call cost the Twins the chance to stage a comeback from a piss-poor performance! It was all Cuzzi's fault! :D

Seriously, though, whether or not this is a PR move by MLB, it was needed, IMO. So far, the post season is being remembered more for the umpires' blown calls than the players' great plays.

Yesterday: a dozen or so close pitches, I said "Ball, low" once when a pitch grazed the corner. I said "No, ball" when a batter barely started his hands at a high one and I didn't want to even hear a request for an appeal (even though there was a U3 to call it). And I said "Ball, in" once when there might have been a question as to whether it was low or inside.

The catcher should be able to know the adjustment that has to be made if it's a question of whether it's missing the bottom or the edge of the zone. But I don't like to, nor I am not inclined to detail every close one.

Now there's an NCAA Pac 10 umpire who calls out location on every ball he calls. ... "Ball, in!" ... "Ball, up!" And he does it loudly, just like you would on a close and critical ball call. On one call in the first inning, he didn't even call "Ball," he said, "Bring it up!"

So, now that he's the center of attention, his misses are far more glaring.

Correct me if I'm wrong but MLB it seems to be the only major sport where the officials have virtually lifetime employment. It's about time someone paid the price for making such lousy calls in the post season. If every year or two someone was let go or demoted because of poor performance during the season it would force them to work harder to keep their job. You know like the rest of us in the real world.:)

The Cardinals actually collapsed at the end of Game 6 as well as in Game 7.

You take an out away and place a runner on first instead, and you put your power pitcher in the stretch, and the one-run game is drastically different. You know that. That blown call is routinely defended the way it's being defended here, but it definitely was a major factor in that game going to Kansas City rather than St.Louis.

The fact that CB Bucknor was even considered, nonetheless selected, to work a World Series is one of the biggest jokes I can imagine.

I wouldn't rely on the media for who was supposed to be in the original WS crew. I believe they are making assumptions based that often guys who work the Divisionals often get to do the WS and the fact that they normally bring on a few guys to work their first WS from that group. I think it's unfair to say Bucknor or Cuzzi will or will not be included because of their performance since the original crew was not made public.

Amen Steve!

Tou-friggin'-ché!

McClelland screwed up, mentally and physically. We know that. Cuzzi and Bucknor screwed up as well. All of this focus on the umpires, did anyone notice the mental mistakes made by Hunter and Molina when Hunter was on 3B and Guerrerro hit the ball to Jeter.

First, Hunter went on that. No chance to make HP. Any descent runner should have been able to read that and know. He did stay in the run down long enough to get Guerrerro to 2B.

Second, Molina did not continue in the run down after he gave the ball to ARod and threw it too early to ARod. He stopped in the infield grass and became a spectator when he should have gotten in line on the 3B end when he threw the ball to ARod.

Did anyone (even here) notice that or were they too focused on the call of Damon at 1B? Which, to me, is a tough call since the angle would be tough and the umpire can't listen for the pop on that toss. Tough call to make at regular speed.

And, the fact that Mathis can't lay down a bunt.

So much is put on the umpires, no one is noticing how poor the play is as well. Or, no one knows what to look for to know the play is just as poor. I wonder which it is.

Of course it was a factor, no one is denying that at all. It didn't "cost them the game". Wasn't there a uncaught infield pop up as well as a passed ball after the bad call?

Exactly what are we accomplishing here.

Why not announce the batter by name, say "swing and a miss, strike two," "down the center of the zone for stike one,". ??

Sometimes I would get, "Hey blue, I need to know the location so I can tell my pitcher how to adjust." My answer was, "tell him to adjust the ball into the strike zone."

I would let my consistency dictate my strike zone and let the announcers, announce. Just my opinion.

It's fall league baseball. Even considering that, my point was that if it is done, it's done very seldom (by me), but a couple of guys can overdo it.

Bucknor isn't unfit for just the division series or the World Series, he's unfit for MLB period.

He is truly an awful, awful umpire, and if anyone thinks he got to the majors because he was better than Umpire X in MiLB, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. CB is one of the few umpires who should actually be fired.

You're right, very few of us know very much about how the game is played, and of course, if we did, we could see that some of the play was poor enough to effectively erase or excuse any bad umpiring.

And the reality of what is now almost a dozen blown calls in this postseason alone should be effectively clouded by a dozen misplays, baserunning blunders and managerial gaffes.

That's very reasonable, objective thinking. It's the kind of thinking that is employed when most propaganda is concocted.

People said the same about Hernandez a couple years ago. Look at what he's been able to do.

What's that ole saying about a person rising to a level of his own incompetence? ;)

Ump 25....
 

You may well be right, but you and I are not the ones who put him MLB, nor are we the people who evaluate him every year. He is considered by the people who hire the umpires one of the best in the world, or he wouldn't be there.

Like or not, that's the bottom line, and the other bottom line is that he may well have been on the WS crew until the MLB office got scared (my opinion) of all the bad pub they were getting.

Kevin, a question
 

With all due respect,

Are you an Angels fan, or is there some other reason you are so angry in these threads?

I really am not happy with the guys involved in these foul-ups either, nobody is on this board. But you are almost over the top angry about it, even taking shots at posters you think are defending these people.

Lighten up a little!

I don't know if it's an ole (or olé?) saying, but you might be referring to the Peter Principle. I don't see how that's relevant to my point, which was that an apparently awful umpire can sometimes turn things around when suitably motivated.

I would also say that if Hernandez had the chance to turn it around, then in fairness Bucknor deserves the same chance. If he can't do it, then he should go. Unlike federal judges, lifetime tenure is not a condition of their doing their job properly.

Part of what magnifies these - or any - missed calls vs misques by the teams is the teams are not expected to be perfect...but the umpires are. Even though everyone knows they are NOT perfect.

JJ

Angry? Me?

That's the best laugh I have had in weeks. Thank you.

And do you actually think that my criticisms of this spate of awful calls shows bias toward any one team? Is that also a joke? Because it should be. I ripped Bucknor for two calls that favored the Angels. I ripped McClelland for two calls, one of which took a run off the board from the Yankees. I ripped Culbreath for missing a strike three call on Posada that triggered that rally. I commended Jerry Layne for a neighborhood call and two tag play calls at the plate that all went for the Yankees. I ripped Cuzzi for a call that went for the Yankees. I ripped Kulpa for a horrendous call at third that went for the Phillies.

Do you honestly think I am biased for any one team in my criticisms of umpires?

I love the game and I love the umpiring profession. I am not biased toward a team in making my judgments nor am I angry in my expressions. Thanks for the guesswork, though; it shows interest.

If you think he made it to MLB because he was "one of the best in the world," or that he still retains his position because he's "one of the best in the world," you're rather naive, with all due respect.

Go ahead, tell him why....go ahead, it's okay.:rolleyes:

Sorry, no can do. I do not wish to be reported to the Obama Administration and hauled away to sensitivity training or re-education camp.

You were on the right track to giving a fair-minded, realistic and truthful answer until you made an absurdly lame joke about the president.

Whereas having black or brown skin used to all but disqualify a man from the higher levels of the umpiring profession, it is now a characteristic that will vault an umpire hundreds of spots higher on the list if he displays even a modicum of aptitude.

There. I have no racial bias or racial superiority problem. But I know the game and the basic workings of the world around me and that's how I think things are.

I happen to completely agree with you, as it is sadly accurate.

Like Jim, If a coach asked me where the pitch was my answer was always "outside the strike zone." However, I would answer the question for a catcher who asked me every now and then. If he asked me too often then I'd quit answering him all together. But, if he was only asking a couple times a game I'd answer him truthfully.

I was always a fan of next to your partners the catchers are your best friends.

I don't think it was lame at all. If it were up to Obama....well, let's not turn this into a political thing. Ump 25 was merely trying to avoid sounding racist, as anytime somebody tells it like it is about affirmative action, they get that label. I've actually heard it on this forum that if you don't like Obama you must be a racist, which is even more absurdly ridiculous than any joke about the man.

This part: "... sensitivity training or re-education camp" is beyond lame. And it is beneath funny. So why make the joke?

Just make the point and avoid sounding racist the best way you can, and if some people react in a juvenile or simplistic way, well, they have to go through life being juvenile or simplistic, so what the hell?

"sensitivity training or re-education camp"

I didn't think it was lame. I liked it.

Telling the truth about Donovan McNabb didn't do Rush any good, so now everyone knows they have to tow the party line. Look how the media has skewered him for telling it like it is.

It wasn't the truth. There's not a clip or a published work by any media entity that bore the message that they were "very desirous for a black quarterback to do well." It was a concoction, and a preposterous one, considering that the ax has always fallen on broadcasters and other high-profile public figures when they make such a racially charged statement.

No, they skewered him for being the racist *** he was/is.

Don't say stupid things like that. Rush is not a racist. He endorses and is friends with people like Allan Keyes, J.C. Watts, Condaleza Rice and many other black people. Saying that the media wanted Donovan McNabb to succeed because he was a black quarterback was 100% correct, and not a bit racist.

See, you say something that is true about a minority group, and you get labeled a racist.

See, we backward rednecks need to stop being racists!:rolleyes:

My neighbor is a racist, and he's very good friends with my biracial self. There are plenty of people who hate "them," and when it is a matter of someone they know, it becomes "except for you."

Limbaugh admits to saying that all composite pictures of criminals look like Jesse Jackson and to telling a black caller to take the bone out of his nose. QED.

If there was any evidence that there was some preferential treatment or institutional desire for McNabb to succeed due to his race, where is it?

I don't think the majority of people think the way you do. I'm sorry you have experienced racism, but like I tried to tell Rutledge a long time ago, some of my best friends REALLY are black. I grew up dating many black women. I was called names in HS because of it, but I didn't care. I like people for who they are, not for the color of their skin. Just like Martin Luther King said to do.

Just because someone tells it like it is about someone of color does not make them racist. People are way too sensitive. There are ignorant white people and ignorant black people and ignorant people of all races. The caller on Rush's show that he told to take the bone out his nose was one of them. Rush points out absurdity by being absurd. That's his style. Over-the-top? Yep. Racist? Not necessarily. McNabb is a marginally good QB at best, and was over-hyped specifically because he was a popular black QB. Rush did not need any evidence, he wasn't on trial. He was making an informed observation.

Rush also said that the NFL games resemble the Bloods and the Crips. Just an accurate assessment based on many of the hoodlums that play in the NFL. There is no shortage of gun toting, strip club attending, drunk driving, leg shooting playahs in the NFL, and guess what? They all seem to have one thing in common. Can you guess what that is?

Again, Rush is just being bombastic intentionally. He knows it pisses liberals off, so he does it. And it works. It just backfired on him when he wanted to join the club he had offended.

So many stereotyes, so little time....

Rush has a big following, but his views are FAR from mainstream.