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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 12:03pm
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You take an out away and place a runner on first instead, and you put your power pitcher in the stretch, and the one-run game is drastically different. You know that. That blown call is routinely defended the way it's being defended here, but it definitely was a major factor in that game going to Kansas City rather than St.Louis.
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 12:20pm
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The fact that CB Bucknor was even considered, nonetheless selected, to work a World Series is one of the biggest jokes I can imagine.
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 12:39pm
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I wouldn't rely on the media for who was supposed to be in the original WS crew. I believe they are making assumptions based that often guys who work the Divisionals often get to do the WS and the fact that they normally bring on a few guys to work their first WS from that group. I think it's unfair to say Bucknor or Cuzzi will or will not be included because of their performance since the original crew was not made public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve View Post
Yeah, maybe they need instant replay in the damn booth for those bozos, who make many more mistakes than the worst umpires in the universe. Maybe these jokers should have to sit out the playoffs because of their poor performances. Then they would see what it's like.
Amen Steve!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 01:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve View Post
Yeah, maybe they need instant replay in the damn booth for those bozos, who make many more mistakes than the worst umpires in the universe. Maybe these jokers should have to sit out the playoffs because of their poor performances. Then they would see what it's like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm21711 View Post
The fact that CB Bucknor was even considered, nonetheless selected, to work a World Series is one of the biggest jokes I can imagine.
Tou-friggin'-ché!
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 01:21pm
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McClelland screwed up, mentally and physically. We know that. Cuzzi and Bucknor screwed up as well. All of this focus on the umpires, did anyone notice the mental mistakes made by Hunter and Molina when Hunter was on 3B and Guerrerro hit the ball to Jeter.

First, Hunter went on that. No chance to make HP. Any descent runner should have been able to read that and know. He did stay in the run down long enough to get Guerrerro to 2B.

Second, Molina did not continue in the run down after he gave the ball to ARod and threw it too early to ARod. He stopped in the infield grass and became a spectator when he should have gotten in line on the 3B end when he threw the ball to ARod.

Did anyone (even here) notice that or were they too focused on the call of Damon at 1B? Which, to me, is a tough call since the angle would be tough and the umpire can't listen for the pop on that toss. Tough call to make at regular speed.

And, the fact that Mathis can't lay down a bunt.

So much is put on the umpires, no one is noticing how poor the play is as well. Or, no one knows what to look for to know the play is just as poor. I wonder which it is.
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Last edited by GA Umpire; Fri Oct 23, 2009 at 01:24pm.
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 01:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
The call only cost them Game 6. Game 7 was lost due to piss poor performance. (I can't help but think of how Douglas C. Niedermeyer would say piss poor performance.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
His call in game 6 caused the Cards total collapse in game 7?

WOW!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
The Cardinals actually collapsed at the end of Game 6 as well as in Game 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
You take an out away and place a runner on first instead, and you put your power pitcher in the stretch, and the one-run game is drastically different. You know that. That blown call is routinely defended the way it's being defended here, but it definitely was a major factor in that game going to Kansas City rather than St.Louis.
Of course it was a factor, no one is denying that at all. It didn't "cost them the game". Wasn't there a uncaught infield pop up as well as a passed ball after the bad call?
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 01:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
Yesterday: a dozen or so close pitches, I said "Ball, low" once when a pitch grazed the corner. I said "No, ball" when a batter barely started his hands at a high one and I didn't want to even hear a request for an appeal (even though there was a U3 to call it). And I said "Ball, in" once when there might have been a question as to whether it was low or inside.

The catcher should be able to know the adjustment that has to be made if it's a question of whether it's missing the bottom or the edge of the zone. But I don't like to, nor I am not inclined to detail every close one.

Now there's an NCAA Pac 10 umpire who calls out location on every ball he calls. ... "Ball, in!" ... "Ball, up!" And he does it loudly, just like you would on a close and critical ball call. On one call in the first inning, he didn't even call "Ball," he said, "Bring it up!"

So, now that he's the center of attention, his misses are far more glaring.
Exactly what are we accomplishing here.

Why not announce the batter by name, say "swing and a miss, strike two," "down the center of the zone for stike one,". ??

Sometimes I would get, "Hey blue, I need to know the location so I can tell my pitcher how to adjust." My answer was, "tell him to adjust the ball into the strike zone."

I would let my consistency dictate my strike zone and let the announcers, announce. Just my opinion.
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 02:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
Exactly what are we accomplishing here.

Why not announce the batter by name, say "swing and a miss, strike two," "down the center of the zone for stike one,". ??

Sometimes I would get, "Hey blue, I need to know the location so I can tell my pitcher how to adjust." My answer was, "tell him to adjust the ball into the strike zone."

I would let my consistency dictate my strike zone and let the announcers, announce. Just my opinion.
It's fall league baseball. Even considering that, my point was that if it is done, it's done very seldom (by me), but a couple of guys can overdo it.
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 02:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkumpire View Post
But if umpire X is good enough for a playoff series, he should be good enough for a WS assignment, even if he blows a call in the DS.
Bucknor isn't unfit for just the division series or the World Series, he's unfit for MLB period.

He is truly an awful, awful umpire, and if anyone thinks he got to the majors because he was better than Umpire X in MiLB, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. CB is one of the few umpires who should actually be fired.
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 02:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA Umpire View Post
McClelland screwed up, mentally and physically. We know that. Cuzzi and Bucknor screwed up as well. All of this focus on the umpires, did anyone notice the mental mistakes made by Hunter and Molina when Hunter was on 3B and Guerrerro hit the ball to Jeter.

First, Hunter went on that. No chance to make HP. Any descent runner should have been able to read that and know. He did stay in the run down long enough to get Guerrerro to 2B.

Second, Molina did not continue in the run down after he gave the ball to ARod and threw it too early to ARod. He stopped in the infield grass and became a spectator when he should have gotten in line on the 3B end when he threw the ball to ARod.

Did anyone (even here) notice that or were they too focused on the call of Damon at 1B? Which, to me, is a tough call since the angle would be tough and the umpire can't listen for the pop on that toss. Tough call to make at regular speed.

And, the fact that Mathis can't lay down a bunt.

So much is put on the umpires, no one is noticing how poor the play is as well. Or, no one knows what to look for to know the play is just as poor. I wonder which it is.
You're right, very few of us know very much about how the game is played, and of course, if we did, we could see that some of the play was poor enough to effectively erase or excuse any bad umpiring.

And the reality of what is now almost a dozen blown calls in this postseason alone should be effectively clouded by a dozen misplays, baserunning blunders and managerial gaffes.

That's very reasonable, objective thinking. It's the kind of thinking that is employed when most propaganda is concocted.
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 04:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP25 View Post
He is truly an awful, awful umpire... CB is one of the few umpires who should actually be fired.
People said the same about Hernandez a couple years ago. Look at what he's been able to do.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 04:31pm
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What's that ole saying about a person rising to a level of his own incompetence?
  #43 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 04:36pm
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Ump 25....

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP25 View Post
Bucknor isn't unfit for just the division series or the World Series, he's unfit for MLB period.

He is truly an awful, awful umpire, and if anyone thinks he got to the majors because he was better than Umpire X in MiLB, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. CB is one of the few umpires who should actually be fired.
You may well be right, but you and I are not the ones who put him MLB, nor are we the people who evaluate him every year. He is considered by the people who hire the umpires one of the best in the world, or he wouldn't be there.

Like or not, that's the bottom line, and the other bottom line is that he may well have been on the WS crew until the MLB office got scared (my opinion) of all the bad pub they were getting.
  #44 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 04:41pm
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Kevin, a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
You're right, very few of us know very much about how the game is played, and of course, if we did, we could see that some of the play was poor enough to effectively erase or excuse any bad umpiring.

And the reality of what is now almost a dozen blown calls in this postseason alone should be effectively clouded by a dozen misplays, baserunning blunders and managerial gaffes.

That's very reasonable, objective thinking. It's the kind of thinking that is employed when most propaganda is concocted.
With all due respect,

Are you an Angels fan, or is there some other reason you are so angry in these threads?

I really am not happy with the guys involved in these foul-ups either, nobody is on this board. But you are almost over the top angry about it, even taking shots at posters you think are defending these people.

Lighten up a little!
  #45 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 23, 2009, 05:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP25 View Post
What's that ole saying about a person rising to a level of his own incompetence?
I don't know if it's an ole (or olé?) saying, but you might be referring to the Peter Principle. I don't see how that's relevant to my point, which was that an apparently awful umpire can sometimes turn things around when suitably motivated.

I would also say that if Hernandez had the chance to turn it around, then in fairness Bucknor deserves the same chance. If he can't do it, then he should go. Unlike federal judges, lifetime tenure is not a condition of their doing their job properly.
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