Intentional HBP
 

Talking MLB

I always thought that if the benches are warned then if a guy gets plunked and the PU thinks it was on purpose then the pitcher AND the mgr get dumped. I cannot find it in the OBR.

Today in Detroit, Leyland was already in the clubhouse and the bench coach(acting mgr) was not dumped when the Tigers pitcher got dumped.

OBR 8.02

(d) Intentionally Pitch at the Batter.
If, in the umpire’s judgment, such a violation occurs, the umpire may elect either to:
1. Expel the pitcher, or the manager and the pitcher, from the game, or
2. may warn the pitcher and the manager of both teams that another such pitch will result in the immediate expulsion of that pitcher (or a replacement) and the manager.
If, in the umpire’s judgment, circumstances warrant, both teams may be officially “warned” prior to the game or at any time during the game.
(League Presidents may take additional action under authority provided in Rule 9.05)
Rule 8.02(d) Comment: To pitch at a batter’s head is unsportsmanlike and highly dangerous. It should be—and is—condemned by everybody. Umpires should act without hesitation in enforcement of this rule.

From the MLBUM

7.4 INTENTIONALLY PITCHING AT THE BATTER
Official Baseball Rule 8.02(d) provides that the pitcher shall not intentionally pitch at the batter.
If, in the umpire's judgment, such a violation occurs, the umpire may either (1) issue a warning;
(2) eject the pitcher immediately; or (3) eject the pitcher and his manager immediately. After a warning has been issued, subsequent violations result in ejection of the pitcher and manager. If the first violation in a game results in a pitcher being immediately ejected, the umpire shall
issue a warning to both managers that subsequent violations in that game will result in ejection of the pitcher and manager.

Warnings should be indicated forcefully and assertively so there is no doubt in anyone's mind that a warning has been issued. The umpire should step out from behind the plate and assertively point at the pitcher while announcing the warning. The umpire should then do likewise and point
toward each dugout while announcing the warning.

As Rule 8.02(d) implies, the first question is whether a pitch was intentionally thrown at the batter. The rule does not apply in the absence of such intent. Whether the pitch was intentional or not is up to the umpire's judgment. In exercising their judgment, umpires are to be mindful that, given the skill level of most Major League pitchers, a pitch that is thrown at the head of a hitter more likely than not was thrown there intentionally. Umpires should bear this presumption in mind in deciding whether a pitch was intentional.

Once Rule 8.02(d) is found to be applicable (because an umpire has determined that, in the umpire's judgment, a pitch was intentionally thrown at a batter), an umpire has two options:

(1) Eject the pitcher, or the pitcher and his manager, from the game; or

(2) Warn the pitcher and the manager of both clubs that another such pitch will result in the immediate expulsion of that pitcher (or replacement) and the manager.

In other words, once an umpire has determined that a pitch thrown at a batter was intentional, the umpire must either warn or eject. Rule 8.02(d) does not give the umpire the discretion to allow the opposing pitcher an opportunity to retaliate in kind before the warning or ejection. Nor does the Rule mandate, even in an instance where a pitcher has intentionally thrown at the head of a hitter, that the pitcher must be ejected.

Which of the two options (warn or eject) is elected by the umpire under Rule 8.02(d) is at the discretion of the umpire, but the elected option is to be based on all the surrounding circumstances. In assessing those circumstances, the umpire is to take into account the Note to Rule 8.02(d), which states that pitching at a batter's head is unsportsmanlike, highly dangerous, and condemned within the sport.

Official Baseball Rule 8.02(d) additionally provides that if, in the umpire's judgment, circumstances warrant, both teams may be officially "warned" prior to the game or at any time during the game. Major League Baseball does not recommend that clubs be officially warned prior to a game except in the most extreme cases.

A report must be phoned in and filed with the Office of the Commissioner any time a warning is issued, giving all specifics of the incident. This is particularly important so that other crews may be advised of potential trouble via the Heads-Up program. (See Section XIV in Conduct and Responsibilities of Umpires.)

In the event a pitcher is removed from the game under Official Baseball Rule 8.02(d), the substitute pitcher should be allowed a sufficient number of pitches to warm up properly. (See Section 7.2.)

Ozzy,
Could you go into a little more detail? :p

JJ

I was not at home with my book and I was trying to scroll through online. Thanks Ozzy.

So, he did not dump the Tigers Mgr...what gives???

Click on the photo for the highlight.

http://mediadownloads.mlb.com/mlbam/...47859_th_3.jpg

Delmon Young(not my favorite of the Young brothers) looked like he was yelling at his own dugout. Maybe he was ticked off at his knuckleheaded pitcher for throwing at Adam Everett in the Bottom of the 8th?

Regarding Young: That is the impression the MLB Network guys had. They had a chuckle over it, said they've seen that a time or two when they were playing.

Maybe the rule means just that, the manager, and not his replacement.

BTW, for the haters out there, Angel Hernandez does not suck, as evidenced by his taking care of business today.

All 3 major codes differ slightly.

Ozzy gave you the OBR version.

In FED, the ump must dump the pitcher (no mention of the coach/manager) if he deems the pitcher intentionally threw close to a batter. The warning is given only if there is doubt as to intent.

NCAA says warn both coaches, unless "drastic action" is warranted, in which case the pitcher may be dumped (but not the D coach, unless the umpire believes it is appropriate). NCAA also allows the umpire to warn both teams at any time, including before the game starts. Apparently, the NCAA likes warnings.

Maybe Young was upset that he was not allowed to throw bats at umpires any longer.

Angel Hernandez has been making some pretty good calls lately in the games I've seen him work. He has not sucked.

Yeah, Delmon is not my favorite Young brother...however, his brother was a coked up bum that ruined a Tiger's season so...Dmitri is not very high on my list, either.

I wish there was a more definitive angle on the call Angel made at first on the runner leaving early...he certainly had a chance of sucking on that one.:D

This the same Delmon Young who threw a bat a minor league umpire?

He should feel really great that umpires looking out for him...:mad:

Based on the video clip, how do we assume that Lloyd Mc. was not ej'd? Did anyone continue to watch the game?

Yeah, I kept watching...Lloyd stayed and so did all of the other coaches.

The box score lists only the Detroit pitcher and catcher in the 9th (he said something to Hernandez after the pitcher got tossed), and Leyland in the 8th as ejectees.

i didn't see the game. had warnings already been issued? if they HAD, then, yes, the pitcher and the skipper are done. if they hadn't been given earlier, then it's whoever angel wants to dump, which was the pitcher.

Warnings were given in the 8th.

Warniongs were given in the 8th....

Both teams had hit each other earlier in the game, in the 2nd and 4th so they were even. In the seventh Minn. threw behind a Detroit batter. So Detroit retaliated in the 8th. That is why Young yelled at his pitcher who had started things up again in the 7th after both were even.

For all those who are disappointed in Mr Hernandez or his performance over the years. Mr. Hernandez has worked a LCS or WS every year but 2006 since 2000.

You know that those assignments are a rotation now, not merit assignments, right?

Every day this year, Newsday re-printed the Mets boxscore from 1969. One of them contained this item:

HBP: Seaver (by Gibson), Gibson (by Seaver)

Ahh the good old days. No warnings, no brawls, and both pitchers went 9, as usual.

That was the year that Seaver was literally taking the mantel of the game's best pitcher away from Gibson. Bob must not have liked that.

We had this neighbor/uncle guy, who said this to me as I was learning the game from him in the mid-60s: "There's a kid pitching at USC who's going to be in the Hall of Fame someday ... remember this name: Tom Seaver."

but more to the point......both pitchers batted.....and thus took one ......

In the Senior Circuit they still do.

You mean the Big Leagues vs the American League

No any league vs. Tball league.

Bob, he doesn't really umpire T-Ball, you know.:rolleyes:

There once was a poster who did, but I forget who it was.

Most Improved?
 

Angel received enough constructive criticism to improve his A-game.

I don't know if you made this comment "tongue in cheek" or not, but you are correct. MLB evaluators had a "Come to Jesus" meeting with Angel a few years back, and the improvement in effort and concentration was noticeable immediately. Improvement in his performance, predictably, followed.