Infield Fly
 

Bases loaded, one out.

Infield is shallow. Batter pops a ball into very shallow CF. CF lets it drop and turns two.

Should infield fly have been called. I know that an outfielder can catch an infield fly, but doesn't an infielder still have to be in position to make the catch with reasonable effort.

I've seen it argued that if the ball being allowed to drop is an advantage to the defense, then IF should be called.

that's a tough one...but sometimes it's just baseball.

Getting doubled up on a fly ball to center takes some horrible base running. They deserve it.

I have yet to call my first infield fly that can't be caught.

Very shallow center? Not so much.

I hope not, since if it can't be caught, it's not an infield fly.

No.

Incorrect.

The test of whether to call IFF is given right there in the rule: whether an infielder could catch the ball with ordinary effort. And it matters where they start: if the infield is in and the ball is in short CF, then it's unlikely that an infielder could catch it with ordinary effort.

A) A fly ball that drops in shallow center that doubles up a batter-runner is the result of loafing, or some other form of horrible base running. How can it happen otherwise?

B) Okay, isn't that the point I made?

Like Michael says, the key is 'ordinary effort'. In no way, in the sitch presented, should this be an IFF. No infielder could have caught this shallow fly ball with ordinary effort.

I had a situation, IFF in effect, batter takes a full swing and hits a nubber in a soft arc, and it lands about 20 feet away between the pitcher's mound and first base line. The ball is untouched, and was no infielder would have been able to reach it even with herculean effort. No IFF was called, everyone was safe. Defensive coach was a bit perplexed, we talked about it at the time and he also came out to discuss it more between innings. He eventually accepted our ruling.

Yes, which is why the IFF requires runners at first and second or with the bases loaded. . .as in the OP. I don't think anybody else was talking about doubling up the batter-runner in this sitch.

And it is horrible base running and/or loafing for the trail runner and lead runner to both get caught on a fly ball to center with the infield in. Inexcusable, really.

The runner that gets put out 2nd is the horrible loafer.

Thanks, Dash ... I needed somebody to understand what I was imparting. It takes a blend of one or two runners with their heads up their @sses, and at least one who's loafing.

(And, have you worked a [SUNY] game that Tyler Johnson pitched yet?)

yeah, the coaches will whine and want you to bail them out for their lack of coaching this concept...oh well.

Not yet - hopefully next year. I did have Tropeano though. Someone did a good job of recruiting to land those two freshmen.

Read the OP

"CF lets it drop". Intentional legal act - situation based.

R1 or R2 is screwed no matter what. He reads potential catch. If he goes CF catches it and he's doubled off. If he stays CF lets it drop he's out at some base.

BR is the loafer - he should be at first in either case.

I read the OP and I stand by my statement. As soon as F8 lets it drop, all runners should be off and running. Whoever is put out 2nd is the lazy lout (including the BR).

It has nothing to do with being lazy. The runner's are screwed because they don't know whether or not it will be caught. If they wait and it's dropped they're screwed. If they go and it's caught they're screwed. That's the whole reason the IFF rule exists in the first place.

Never mind

They have a guy hanging around here, and they signed Johnson before he had a chance to play his senior year. I heard about the other guy you referred to. Tyler said he's the goods.

Johnson's lefty teammate in high school was Sean Gilmartin, also a freshman, who went 12-2 for Florida State this year, and led the A.C.C. in wins. And there was a third guy on that team that had a little twinge, or that would make three D-I starters from one high school team. He wound up being a left fielder at Loyola, and is probably going to pitch this year. My son was a short reliever on that team, but with those guys around, it was a lonely job.

I can't wait until you have Johnson--he's as close to Orel Hershiser as I have ever seen. I watched him go 20-0 as a varsity starter.

on a trouble ball as it is described, the runners shouldn't be standing on the base anyway...they should at a minimum be 6 - 10 feet off of the base in case it does drop. sounds like poor base running to me

I think Dash is referring to leagues with proper coaching. I haven't run into a coach in recent memory who would have his runners sit on their bags on that fly ball.

If it looks like an infielder's going to flag it on the way out into the outfield, then the lead's longer (40-feet from first/25-30 feet from second), and if it looks like the center fielder's going to catch it sprinting in, it's shorter (25 feet from first/10-12 feet from second). And, the runners should both be reading it for a drop as well to get an early start.

PAY ATTENTION! READ THE OP! The original post said that F8 allowed it to drop. Thus it isn't a case of reading whether he can catch it or not. It means he was close enough to either catch it or allow it to drop as he saw fit. Depending on where the runners are he either catches it or allows it to drop. In either event, some runner is screwed.

Pay attention to reality. Any coach who keeps his runner so close to the bag he doesn't have a fighting chance to reach second safely shouldn't be coaching, coach.

The bottom line is there is no rule prohibiting F8 from allowing the ball to drop, or dropping the ball from his glove intentionally and getting the runner at second base on the force. Too bad, so sad, thanks for playing, come back soon, drive safely.

CALM DOWN! Read my post; I was being general!

Rich,

Assuming good baserunning, F8 hurts his team by letting the ball drop. Yes, one runner is going to be "screwed" and out on a force (probably R1), but R3 scores and the B/R is on 1st since he ran out the fly ball.

F8 makes the catch - bases loaded, two out, no runs.
F8 lets it drop - R1, R3, two out, one in.

The only way you get a DP to end the inning is with horrible loafers on the bases.

And anyone wearing horrible loafers on the basepaths shouldn't be playing to start with!

And you know what that makes them?

A lollygagger!

(Sorry, Bull Durham was on TV tonight.) :D

Still is on the left coast, but it's almost over...Nuke just called up.

I can easily envision an 8-(4 or 6)-5 double play on a shallow dropped fly ball, without loafing.

I'll concede that. I can also envision the D f'ing up the DP and winding up with R2, R3, still only one out, and two in.

BTW - what is the point of this discussion? No one is saying an infield fly should have been called in the OP.

Agreed, and I can envision one being a tag play and the PU better be ready to score the run or wipe it off due to the time play. Then we might have to change the discussion from horse$hit baserunning to horse$hit umpiring. Wow, a no-brainer turns into a brainer.

Man, you sure are a buzzkill. :D

...but you're right to ask...

Infield Fly
 

It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it.

That would be a judgement call on ordinary effort. Sounds like you got it right!