PU-Throwing Ball Back to Pitcher-Let the Players Play the Game
 

I have read posts before on PU throwing the ball back to the pitcher. Most PU's stated it helps speed up the game and keeps a flow to the game. Whether it does or doesn't depends on one's view point. I don’t think it does and if you think it does, it doesn’t generate much in saving time, etc. I tried it a few times and after that felt it best to leave it up to the catcher to throw the ball back. This is a pet peeve of mine and can not figure out why some umps insist on performing this act. I have witnessed in more than one situation where the PU beaned the pitcher, either by an errant throw by the ump or the pitcher not watching the ump. Why risk this? This past weekend, LL games, I saw some umps take two or three steps towards the pitcher, perform a crow hop and then gently tossed the ball to the pitcher. These guys looked ridiculous. Why risk embarrassing yourself, or risk a liability suit if you bean the kid and cause injury. Saw ML Ump throw the ball back to the pitcher while the F2 was still chasing down the live ball at the back stop on a dropped third strike. Now what? Just give the ball to the catcher and let him toss it back. That is why the catcher is there. I have witnessed umps, at all levels, fire the ball back to the pitcher, almost like a moment of going back in time, "Look at me I can still throw, yea I used to be a catcher or player, etc". What's the point here? What is that all about? That's not your job! Just give it to the catcher, take a breather, put your mask on and get ready for the next pitch. We talk about wannabe's in coaches and fans, I believe there are some of us wannabe's still trying to prove that we are just not umps but X players as well. Also, why risk injury? All it takes is one throw and you pull a muscle, tear a tendon and no more calling balls and strikes for awhile, unless you load up on pain meds. I think some umps need to "Just Get Over It!" and leave the ball playing to the ball players. In summary:
1. Why take the chance of a Liability Suit, injury to the pitcher... we all enjoy the game too much.
2. Embarrassement over missing the target - under or over throw.
3. Risk to injuring yourself.
4. Let the players play the game.

There I feel better!

In the LL games on TV the umpire throws the new ball to the pitcher while the catcher retrieves the old ball. It does speed things up and the players know what to expect.

Otherwise - who cares?

I do it.
 

It's fun. Only during dead ball, and I make sure pitcher is looking at me before I throw one in the air. If not, I'll throw a one-hopper, especially if the catcher is not paying attention. Then pitcher can be getting ready along with catcher.

This doesn't seem worthy of a pet peeve. Perhaps you have unresolved issues from your childhood.:)

Forget the other reasons -- this is why I don't throw it to them. I could probably get it to the pitcher most of the time, but it's the times I miss the target that I don't want to deal with. At this point, the game surely isn't going any faster.

In the high school baseball games here, we rely on the on-deck batter to get foul balls that catchers would normally retrieve. I tell the catchers during the 1st inning that they don't get foul balls - they get a ball from me. By the time the ball's to the pitcher, the on-deck batter's shagged the previous ball and either given it back to me, or kept it with him to give to me when he comes up to bat.

At my local park, the fences are only 10 feet behind the plate, so the catcher usually gets it before I can think about getting a new one. Of course, most of the ones fouled back land back in front of the plate anyway.

I think we've covered this a number of times in the last few months, but I will only throw the ball back if the catcher is busy with something else. If he takes a hard foul ball that glances away, I'll step out and throw a ball out, brush off the plate, and let him get a breather.

Where possible, I let the catcher throw it, and I try to have a fresh one ready before he even gets his hand or glove up.

I would hope you are only throwing a ball out when one is not in play, and you probably should not be throwing a ball in the dirt whether on purpose or accident.

Not only does it look very bad to do that, it looks even worse when it gets by the pitcher.

Done appropriately, that is when the catcher is otherwise occupied, it does speed up the game. When the catcher is not busy, I hand the new ball to him.

If you can't throw a ball 60 feet, then don't try.

It most cases it does no harm to throw the pitcher a new ball while the catcher is running to the fence to retrieve an errant throw. For foul balls back to the fence, we let the on deck hitters get those. I have seen guys underhand balls to the pitcher if they can't throw them overhand. This is something I go over when I speak to the catcher/pitcher when they are warming up before the first pitch, so the pitcher knows to pay attention if his catcher is running down a ball.

I used to
 

I used to throw the ball out whenever a new one was needed. No problems for a few years, then one weekend tourney I turned into the catcher from Major Leage 2 and threw 5 to F8, and a couple to F6 and F4. So rather than quoting the Victoria Secret catalog I just let the catcher throw it back when he is available. I'll still thow one out if the F2 is going to be occupied for any period of time.

I played a lot of baseball, majored in Physical Education, wrote a term paper on the fundamentals of pitching, and can throw a baseball (and a football) long and straight. That being said, I hand the ball to the catcher whenever F2 isn't busy doing something else. I can throw it to the pitcher, but ocassionally it gets away from me, and that doesn't look good. I too like my on deck hitters shagging fouls to the backstop so the catcher can throw the ball to his pitcher.

Maybe it's just me, but I have no trouble throwing it one foot wide of glove hand side of the pitcher. I'll even pick up the catcher's mask/helmet if the ball is dead, or no runners on. Anything to speed up the game.

Now, it you can't make a quality toss, then don't. If you can't bend over easily to help your catcher out, fine, don't rip your drawers. But why bag on me because I throw straight, and can do more situps than you? And why is it such a big deal, for gosh sakes?
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...g/sgthulka.jpg

Gee Kyle, you're my Big Toe!!!



:D

Dittos.

Jpaco...if you want the catchers to throw the ball back, then do it that way. There are far more things to focus on to become a better umpire and you seem pretty passionate about your reasons. Go with it!

One of the parts of your job is to keep the game moving.

There is nothing wrong with the umpire throwing the ball back, provided they can make a decent throw.

Also, you need to change states if you think you're at risk of liability for that.

As long as you're acting in good faith and aren't being negligent ( throwing a 94mph and hitting the pitcher in the head ala david wright would be negligent) than you're covered.

YAWN!
Thank you for allowing me to waste 5 minutes of my life that I will never get back!

My God! We have a lot more important things to worry about on the field than this gobbily-goop!

There! Now I feel better!

Ozzy ... :D

Ahem ...

It is in the umpire's job description to get a ball to the pitcher as soon as possible. If throwing it himself can accomplish this, and he's willing and capable, he can and should do it if he's so inclined.

And the liability question could possibly be a concern with a Little Leaguer with a lawyer dad, but come on ... a geezer throwing a ball to an accomplished athlete is not dangerous.

If you can throw a ball 60 feet with 99 percent accuracy, and look like a non-girl when you do it, then throw the ball back to save time if you want to. If you throw like a girl, or you make the pitcher reach too much, give it to the catcher. No big deal.

Here it is Ozzy, just in case you missed it.

9.00—The Umpire.

9.04
(a) The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher. (He usually is called the plate umpire.) His duties shall be to:
(1) Take full charge of, and be responsible for, the proper conduct of the game;
(1a) The plate umpire is responsible to get a ball to the pitcher as soon as possible
(2) Call and count balls and strike;
(3) Call and declare fair balls and fouls except those commonly called by field umpires;
(4) Make all decisions on the batter;
(5) Make all decisions except those commonly reserved for the field umpires;
(6) Decide when a game shall be forfeited;
(7) If a time limit has been set, announce the fact and the time set before the game starts;
(8) Inform the official scorer of the official batting order, and any changes in the lineups and batting order, on request;
(9) Announce any special ground rules, at his discretion.

Actually, you are not even throwing the ball 60 ft. most times. The pitcher usually comes half way to the plate to recieve my throws, after I uncork a few...those knuckleballs are unpredictable.

OBR - Rule 9.04 (a) 1(a) -Missing From Rule Book
 

Is the rule you quoted part of the LL rules...Cause I missed it somewhere...In the copy of the rule book I have, OBR 2008 edition, Rule 9.04 (a) 1(a) must have been left out...or maybe there is an updated version....:o

I'm in agreement with most here. I can throw back and will when F2 is busy.

However I don't do it all the time, by choice, because
a) a colleague broke the nose of an F1; was sued for $2m, insurance settled for 800 large. Maybe I am covered, but that is at the minimum a hassle I want to avoid (experienced PU to DII pitcher, yup it happens).
b) coaches yell at F2 when he throws a bad one; on occasion I have thrown a bad one, they yell at me too. Don't want to give them that chance.

On the other hand another PU colleague who had pitched in MiLB threw them back at (adult) pitchers who complained about balls & strikes. Threw it hard at their feet to make 'em dance!

Could you provide the name of the pitcher or umpire or team, approximate date and jurisdiction, please.

An exhaustive search for "umpire liability" lawsuits conducted last year did not reveal this one.

Hmmm,
 

I have not thrown a ball back to F1 since August 8, 1981.

I was told by two MLB catchers that they (and all other catchers they knew) want to throw the ball back.

Both catchers noted that in the "olden days" umpires were supposed to 'prove' they were athletic enough to be on the field.

Since the early 1980s umpires are not required by MLB to throw the ball back (as an aside at umpire school in the 1970s not only were umpires required to throw the ball back to the pitcher they were also required to throw the ball right handed ONLY).

This obviously wasn't an NFHS game as they have no record of anything like this.

I too would like a little more information since I have three articles due for High School Today that deal with official/participant safety.

Thanks Tim for some of the background info. I have learned over the years that baseball has a long historial life to it that continues to evolve and there is usually a reason or explanation to the rules and traditions to the game. Appreciate the info.

Still can not find Rule 9.04(a) 1(a) OBR...lq

According to the poster it was a D-II game. I sent an inquiry in to NCAA asking what they have on this. It could be recent, I guess, but it wasn't included in information provided earlier, which was supposed to be inclusive to 2007.

Keep looking. You'll find it right next to the keys to the batter's box.

I wike u. Yu catch on reel quik!

Yu veery funny!!!!!

Clearly, there are two schools of thought on this issue. In one case, I have been told that under no circumstances are we to throw a ball back to the pitcher, and when I work in that environment, thats what I do. I also was dinged on an evaluation for NOT throwing a ball to the pitcher while the F2 was waddling back to the backstop to pick up a throw. Their comment was , " why just stand there with your finger in your ...??". The first comment was for youth ball and the second was for HS. Your mileage may vary.

Translation: What Ozzy said was funny as hell. After laughing, I cleared my throat, thus the AHEM.

Then, to address the original topic, I wrote what I wrote. Sorry the term "Job description" was too literal for you, and sorry that it seemed that I was in conflict with Ozzy.


SHEESH!

I was told the story in 2000. Not sure how much before that it occurred.
And, I don't feel the liberty to go with names. Sorry.

Sense of Humor - Thanks Guys!
 

You guys are great...needed a laugh today, stressful at work and some family stuff going on...I did not want to LOL so I put an LQ in there in case I embarrassed myself again. You have to learn to laugh at yourself and not to take all this stuff seriously unless we are referring to actual rules help.. :D Steve, great comment...I did not know that nor can I even think that quick anymore, "seperate keys for the batter's box." I guess I know I am in trouble these days when my partner tells me at the pre-game meeting as I struggle to read my notes that I have my glasses on backwards and my ball bag is on the wrong side. With my Navy and Merchant Marine background I should know how to play and take pratical jokes. I believe the military and frat orgs are the experts. For new personnel on board ship, their first assignment was to send themo down to the engine room, usually about 6 stories (decks) down and get a bucket of steam, bring it top side and don't spill any. They would usually get down to the 4th deck and realize they had been punked!

Y'all have a great day and thanks for all your comments. We all have developed some techniques to improve the flow of the game and manage the game a little better, and even if it does not state in the rules to get the ball back in play timely, we all want to enhance the game. I like Steve, used to be able to throw well but now I can not trust myself. I will assist the catcher at times but just can not toss real well. Anyway, enough with this post.

I heard a preacher one time state these words after he lost his train of thought during a sermon and I kinda picked up on it now when I have some brain fog or when the situation gets confusing..."Just do what ya do Lord, just do what ya do"! I just have to avoid saying this when calling a bang bang play.:)

SHEESH!

Lighten up Kevin.

I can't throw worth a crap anymore so I haven't for the last 20 years. But I can replace an out of play ball within 5 seconds by handing it to the catcher (I let him throw it back). How's that for ya? :D:D

But beside all of that this is still a boring thread! :eek:

Actually I can still throw a seed back at the pitcher, it's just once in awhile it gets away, usually due to my chest protector, and for an umpire, that is once too many.

Most of them are, but we take what we can get!:)

Foul ball that F2 gives chase, I open gate and go with him. We end up 20 feet away from each other, F1 standing around the plate area.

I'm flipping it to F1.

Ball to the backstop during warmups, I'm flipping to F1 from the foul line. I'm not going to flip 30 feet one way so F2 can throw it 60 feet another.

If F2 is in front of me, I'm handing. He wants to keep his guy in a rhythm. I could keep him in one if I wanted to, my arm is pretty good, but that's his job, not mine.

As for the athleticism Tim pointed out, I didn't know that history. These days, I'll prove that athleticism by getting to the 45 foot line on a ground ball when the fat @$$ catcher never moves a muscle from behind the plate :eek:

If the PU wants to throw the ball back to the F1, then he can if he wants, but I do not even throw the ball back to the F1 in a girls' H.S. fastpitch softball game for fear of having the ball take two or three bounces before it gets to the circle. Throwing the ball back to the F1 is just one of the duties of the F2.

MTD, Sr.

I don't understand (1) why F2 is chasing a foul, (2) why you need to open the gate, (3) why you end up 20 feet from each other, and (4) why on earth F1 is standing around the plate area. Could you explain why all of these things are happening without baserunners?

Your colleague had a $hitty lawyer.

I assume he means a foul fly that ends up not caught.

I follow the same general guidelines as tussagee. I'll also throw it back if F2 takes a ball off the body and needs a minute.

Its simpler than you realize!:p

1) The ball was popped up behind the plate
2) Open the gate so catcher can chase the ball, track F2 as he runs back to the fence
3) 20 feet was just a reasonable guess, don't want to be too close for him making a potential play, don't want to give up the plate too much if there is an R3
4) On the foul ball behind the plate, pitchers traditionally head towards home or if the popup is off behind either dugouts they chase it as well. They rarely stand idly by on the mound, particularly if there is R3.

Make sense? :)

I assume that you assumed that we were discussing a direct foul shot to the screen, in which case I think we agree slap one in F2s hand and let someone else chase it down.

Oh, additional information. Now I can "see" it in my feeble mind:). Yes, I was picturing a passed ball or foul straight back with no runners.

I almost started a thread about this the other day. Watching a Cubs game, PU, Gerry Davis I believe, fired one back to F1. Soto was right there and turned his head, said something through his mask to PU who leaned in and nodded. The next several times, PU handed F2 the ball. It got me wondering what other umpires do.

Me? I usually have one ready before F2 gets the hand or glove up. If F2 is up and away from me I throw it back. Sometimes in high school I seem to get an F2 that thinks it time for him to stand up and stretch. I used to catch and don't blame him one bit if that's what he wants to do. I step to the side and its an easy toss back to F1. I don't think it's my time to show off and fire a missile. Nothing to prove. Agreed with the other poster that I show my ability by hustling my fat *** to where I'm supposed to be.

If it happened, it is public record....no need to worry about disclosing something is part of the public record......

~sigh~
 

This is the critical issue. At least now I have some information: I know the state where it happened, about when it happened and the name of one of the people involved.

This time of year it is nearly impossible to get information from the NCAA but I am trying to find their record of this happening.

Love these threads:rolleyes:

179 days until HS Season.

Maybe another bottle of Jack Daniels will make it more interesting.

(1) To catch a pop foul (2) so don't interfere with him (3) because 20 feet away is close enough to call a pop foul catch (4) no clue why F1 is at the plate area, but if he is there I will hand/toss him a ball for his return trip to mound if the ball went out of play. If F2 made the catch he can throw that ball to him.

I see quite a few ML umps who throw the ball back, but they are throwing to professionals. I prefer to let the catcher throw back to amateurs if at all possible.

Perhaps you should have read these posts first:

Maybe a slap to the back of your noggen would straighten you out!

You still act like a little brat so I continue to treat you as such!

That was a joke, right? Either way, not that amusing.

This post should be embedded at the top of every thread on this site.

I can't believe that a thread about throwing the ball back to the pitcher has gone five pages. :confused:

Yep, missed it..

Well, with all the "editing," it's back to four!:)
No big deal, it happens! I wasn't thinking clearly to start with, but what else is new?

As you can see, it is no longer about "throwing the ball back to" someone,
we are now discussing the possibility of throwing the ball "at" , someone.

A simple joke from me turned into a barrage of attacks. It doesn't look good on any of us to diss, or to talk about swatting someone. Can we please start talking about baseball?

Stop posting.

Heh. He lives to stir the pot, Brian, he's been doing it for years now. Why would he stop today?

No. Jokes are funny. You haven't posted anything funny in this thread.

True. No one is close enough to you to make contact. It makes everthing thing look like an idle threat.

Say...why don't you help out here? Smack yourself on the back of the head.



Okay...use a baseball bat.