What do you keep on your line-up cards?
 

High school baseball is starting to get into its final weeks here in Iowa and I had an interesting discussion with some of the veteran umpires around the area the other day. We were discussing our surprise that some umpires don't "take" line-up cards for non-varsity games (ie JV or Sophomore games). It seems like everyone within our association takes line-up cards but when we get partnered up (one way or another) with a non-association member it's a crap-shoot whether they take a card. We obviously think a card should always be taken in high school baseball.

The topic was then discussed about what some partners include on their card. I include (I know I'll forget some things I do): Substitutions (player uniform number with position), Positional Changes, Charged Conferences, Courtesy Runners, Warnings...can't think of anything else...The biggest discussion was that some are recording the inning the changes are made. For instance, if the F4 came into pitch during the second inning the scorecard would look as such: 4/(1/2). I don't record the inning but it made me think about whether I should, I don't think so though.

One thing I do that the other umpires liked was creating a chart for courtesy runners instead of clogging up the line-up card. I usually find a space on the bottom of the card and make a two row chart. Each row represents F1 or F2. Then I track the runner and inning on the respective row (IE #14 in the 3rd inning would be: 14/3).

What do you all track on your card?

-Josh

For all high school games, I use the plastic info card. I take the batting order from each coach, check it, put it in my little black folding lineup holder, and never look at it again, unless a problem arises (which is very rare).

I list all changes and trips on the info card. When a coach says, for example, 15 for 2, I write 2, draw a single diagonal line through him, and write 15 next to him. If 2 reenters later, I circle his number and draw an X over 15, signifying that he cannot return, since he was a sub and is now done for the day. If another sub comes in for once-reentered 2, I then complete the 2nd part of the X over 2, meaning he cannot reenter again.

It works for me.

I don't care about positional changes unless it involves F1 or F2.

I do record the inning and the batter for conferences and changes.

If there's an ejection / restriction, I write down the pertinent details (who, when, ehat was said).

I carry a paper and pencil on the bases to record a grocery list between innings. (not really -- but I do carry one to record the ejection information, and items I want to discuss with my partner after the game).

http://www.honigs.com/img_item_full/KIX.jpg

I love the plastic info card!

I guess I'm a little behind on this one. I've seen guys with the plastic info cards but never actually looked at them. What is on them? The honig one looks nice from what I can see. The other ones I've found look like a waste of money (only listing trips and the score). The bottom of the scorecard has a spot for trips and I could care less what the score is (that's on the scoreboard) ;)

Steve-

I like your method of "x"-ing out players. Thanks

-Josh

Josh:
 

In Oregon we have (starting with the 2010 high school season) a mandatory lineup card for all state sponsored games.

The design of the card was to make it large enough to write changes (many of us have been given a lineup card from a coach on a 2" x 2" piece of paper) but also strong enouogh to handle wet days.

With this card we have instructed coaches the correct NFHS system for listing the DH and had taught umpires how to use the card (similar to what Steve touched on). What the design tried to accomplish was to make changes clear and FAST so umpires would actually make changes.

We required all substitutions to be made, all trips to the mound made (with notations ofr batter, count and # of coach going to the mound) and of course we want any ejections listed.

The "proof" side of the card is that starting in 2011 with any ejection an umpire must send a true copy of his lineup card in with the ejection report so we can monitor that cards are being kept and are up to date.

In Iowa each team is suppose to (but don't always) use the state-sponsored line-up card. The current card does not have room to write all the information you've mentioned though for a mound trip. I usually just include the inning and outs.

What do you mean by proof side?

-Josh

Well,
 

The "proof side" is the system that requires certain lineup cards to be sent to the OSAA offices with an ejection report.

An umpire, not knowing if he might have an ejection at any time, is then encouraged to keep thier lineup card current and up-to-date as they do not know if that by games end the card may have to go through official adminstration reveiw.

I think it's a great idea. Is there reprimand for not keeping your card up-to-date?

-Josh

Hmm,
 

Because all officials in Oregon are independent sub-contractors there is no process for penalties.

HOWEVER there is a process for selecting playoff umpires and not keeping a lineup card correctly could be a determining factor if an umpire works playoff baseball.

I did this lineup card on Excel so that I can do as Steve says: fold the original lineups away after certifying them, and then virtually never look at them again until it's time to throw them away at the car. In my case, I fold them away after writing each player's number on the card, and each sub's number in the right hand column. Later on, when a coach calls out a substitution, I put the number of the sub next to the starter's, record the inning, and draw a slash through his number in the right-hand reserve column. When the starter re-enters, I write his number back in after his sub's number, and I put a slash through the sub's number, which finishes him. That's also when I put a slash through the starter's number, which means he can't re-enter again. I size it to fit in my scorecard wallet.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...parkguy/GC.jpg

I have another card that I use to keep score and list the coaches' names and record their conferences as well as record the game time, end time, warnings, etc.:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ORECARDS-1.jpg

I don't start a game without a lineup from both coaches, V and JV. I put in my shirt pocket and don't look at it again unless there is a question.

I have a game card I designed, print them on printer. I keep up with trips, offensive and defensive, by inning, courtesy runners separately for pitcher and catcher, substitutions (1-2 means 1 went in for 2, I circle the 2 and strike through the 1 if 2 reenters). I keep up with warnings and ejections on the back side where there is more space for writing. Every game I get a new sheet and throw away the one from previous game.

Personally, I tri-fold my lineup card, blank paper on the outside. On the top of the blank fold I put the coach's first name and underneath that I put the first name of the catcher with his #.

At the bottom of the sheet I record visits and work up. Inning, outs and batter up during visit. If it is not a charged visit, I put an "X" before the info.

X B4 0 out #12

For courtesy runners, I start that underneath the catcher's name at top. # of courtesy runner, position running for and inning.

14 CR (2) - 1

Next time the same courtesy runner comes up, I just note the inning.

14 CR (2) - 1/4
5 CR (1) - 2

I use the () for the position since that is what the CR is tied to.

By the end of the game, it may look like this:

------------------------------------
/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Joe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,,,,,,,,#8 Tyler,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,14 CR (2) 1/4/6,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,7 CR (1) 2/5,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,6 CR (1) 7,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,X,,,7,,,,2,,,,,,,,,12,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,,,,,,5,,,,0,,,,,,,,,,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,X,,,3,,,,0,,,,,,,,,,3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
/,,,,,X,,B1,,,1 out,,,#10,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/
------------------------------------

Editorial note: Commas used for spacing and alignment.

All of these "stand in" line up cards are fine but what if something goes wrong or the game is suspended? What do you guys do, submit your plastic cards or do you sit there copying the game information on the official line up's? The original line up cards should have the information on them, not on a copy.

HS Baseball winding down in Iowa? Our schools are all closed up her in CT now and the State tournaments are long over!

I use the actual line up cards to keep my subs on. I also cary a 3x5 card that I keep conferences on the unlined side and the score on the other. I use a modified credit card holder ( its been chopped down a little bit.) as a line up card holder and it works great with my system.

HS baseball in IA is played during the summer.

Honig's pocket Clip board
 

Honig's sells the black plastic folder that has a mini clip, that holds the teams line up sheet. It comes w/ a pencil and a plastic card that BU can record C-runners, trips & pitching changes, Off. & Def. conferences, and other info you feel is impt. This is a great organizer when working the dish. Anything to keep track of the game is helpful. Our ump association buys these every year for our umpires. I recomend this item. #KIP @ $7.95. ;)

Hmmm,
 

Never have I heard of or seen an umpire keep score.

Ump keeping score
 

:confused: We have enough to do, let alone keeping score. We are the police, enforcer, rule interpreter, secretary, financial adviser, janitor, judge, jury, weather forecaster, ring master and some other that I cannot think of now. But score keeper, not this ump!

Closest I come to keeping score is writing it down when a coach lodges a protest (along with runner, count, outs, ect.). Or checking with the scorekeeper between innings (around the 4th) to see if we are going to have a 10RR, but that is it. (BTW, our fields do not have scoreboards, otherwise I would have no reason to talk with the GLMs that typically keep book.)

we never have a problem with the line-up cards being too little. i HATE it when coaches give you a full 8.5x11 sheet of printer paper with their line-up on it. I like it though when they give you half-sheets. I think that's the perfect amount of paper for a line-up card.

Thanks Bob. Ozzy, Iowa chooses to play BB/SB during the summer. Lets not get into the pros/cons of summer ball but that's what we have.

The BU records Courtesy Runners, Conferences, etc?

-Josh

Well, you're lucky or ... I don't know; what do you want to hear?

That's great, Tim. Good for you, Tim.

Oh, I get it! We don't keep score, we keep track of the score. Never heard of or seen that, either? Well, around this little area where I work, the umpire is required to keep track of the score on a little card or sheet that resembles what I posted earlier.

Kevin,

The Umpire is REQUIRED to keep track of the score?!?!?!

That's amazing.

Who so requires?

JM

I share JM's amazement. Unless it's on the scoreboard, I rarely pay attention to the score.

Easy, son! I am not familiar with Iowa other than tornadoes and Auntie Em! I was just a bit surprised, that's all! :eek:

Thank you Bob, I was unaware!

Don't move to CT, Tim! We are required to keep inning by inning tally on the lineup. Why? I have no idea!

The following units or leagues require the plate umpire to record the runs on a sheet or card like I posted: H.S. Varsity; H.S. JV; H.S. Varsity Summer; 18-U Wood; 18-U Metal; 25-U Wood; 25-U Metal. Those that don't require it: American Legion.

I wish it was like you say. I could do without it.

huh
 

I learn something new everyday.


The only time I want to know the score is in the last inning or when a travesty is at hand. Just so I don't stay too long... ;)

I think that was Kansas there Toto :rolleyes:

-Josh

Hey Rob, are you like obsessed with travesties or what? Or should I say, travestaaahs!:D

The preceding infomercial was brought to you by Dick Honig.

Are you writing all this down on your Honig's KIP Black Plastic Folder w/Mini-Clip, which retails for $7.95 by any chance?:rolleyes::)

Well,
 

Kevin, I simply intoned that I had never heard of umpires keeping score.

Now I have.

This is the second time I have heard of this oddity.

Since in my neck of the woods the PU OWNS the pitcher, catcher and batter it will be high time before any BU leeps track of anything concerning them.

Best of all, during high school season there are no CRs to worry about.

Tim,

What?!?!!? No courtesy runners??

That's one of the most effective "slow down" rules in the book!

JM

Wow, I think I might have seen Kansas in concert with Toto back in the late 70s! And America was on the card too. They played Tin Man, and John Mellencamp did Rain On The Scarecrow.;)

And you were there, and you were there, and so were you!

lol Thanks for the laugh Steve, I needed that today

-Josh

California is not courteous in this respect either. We never adapted any of the "speed up (yeah, right)" rules that NFHS suggests, except we do have the 10 run rule back, I think. Anyone know for sure?

The rules are not so much to speed up the game, but to allow more participation.

Then why does the rule book call them "speed up rules?"

... Well, Steve, it's because they're speed-up rules.

Yeah, that's what I figured...wonder what he was thinking.:confused:

Oops! Well what do you expect from a suburban, ocean dweller like me? Hell if I see a funnel cloud, I am dead meat! I can't see 20 to 30 miles away unless I am looking over Long Island Sound! With the rolling hills here, you are lucky to see 5 to 10 blocks! :cool:

No CR's allowed in CT either, UmpJM. No mercy rule either! :(

I don't, per se, keep score, but when it's the 5th inning and near 10 run lead for somebody I like to know, so I will know when game is over.

Scoreboard operators are pretty good in HS around here, as far as score is concerned. Balls, strikes and outs is another matter on the board, but I keep up with that pretty good.

It's a travesty, isn't it.....? But that's how we roll up heahhh....

It NEVER speeds up the game. It ALWAYS allows participation from a non-starter. Participation must be the goal.

How does the PU own the pitcher catcher and batter? They decide what they do. I just don't see how a PU can own them.

You really can't be that...well I can't say it because it will get deleted.:mad: Are you really unfamiliar with the phrase, or the meaning in this case? :confused: He means that he is the one in charge of keeping track of these people's actions during the game. Hey, we outlawed slavery in the 1860s in this country, so I don't understand your silliness at all.

Ah, but I know from Mr. Tim_C that when he says something, it is normally more than just what the rest of us would have assumed. The plate ump keeps track of everybody's actions during the game, but clearly something must be unique about the catcher, batter and pitcher.

Up here in Northern California, about 550 miles from you, we don't use the CR rule and unfortunately the 10 run rule either. I know that doesn't answer your question because we have, I think, three HS sections in this state.

So when the catcher is on base when the third out is made he ALWAYS is able to run into the dugout, put his gear on, and get back on the field and take the remainder of the warmup pitches within 1 minute timed from the third out?

We have 10 sections here in CA. ;)

http://www.cifcs.org/CIFSectionsMap/SECTIO~1.HTM

10, wow!! It is a big state for sure. Thanks for that info.

Probably not. That's why you have a guy on the bench grab a helmet and glove unless you only have 9 players that day.

So do the section champions ever play each other? Or are there just multiple "state" champions in CA?

You are correct. The catcher probably will not be able to make it from the bases, to the dugout, and back on the field in under a minute...therefore the game will be delayed as normally the warmup pitches take no longer than 1 minute timed from the third out. If the catcher was ready to go when the third out was made then the warmup pitches would not take longer than a minute.

Not that I'm aware of. There are only sectional champions in baseball. Football used to have only sectional champions until a few years ago where they went to a bowl system where a team from Northern California plays a team from Southern California in each division. From what I understand, basketball has a tradtional state tournament.

I have always noted the inning and out for a visit...Is there any benefit to noting the batter? Just rereading the post and come to a conclusion on how I want to keep my card in the future...Thanks!

-Josh

The LA City section winner doesn't even play the Southern Section winner, even though the City Section is right in the middle of the Southern Section and many of the schools play each other in the spring season.

Los Angeles is huge, and San Diego isn't tiny either.

In San Diego County, there are 74 high schools that have baseball programs. They are divided into leagues and conferences, with usually 10 to 12 teams each, by area. There are four division classes, based on enrollement size; 4A, 3A, 2A, and 1A. Each division has first round, second round, quarter finals, and semi-finals. There are then four Section CIF Finals, one for each division, which are now held at Tony Gwynn Field at S.D.S.U. At one time, they held the finals at Qualcomm Stadium. This year, 10 teams got to play in 5 games at Petco Park during the regular season.

It would save time if the catcher would put the gear on when he reaches the dugout, but that don't happen very often. And pitcher waits to come out until catcher is ready. What saves time is a backup catcher coming out to warmup the pitcher, and one of the other players bringing the pitcher his cap and glove when he is on the bases. That don't happen much either.

With third grade on down the manager stands in front of the dugout and announces where each player is going to be playing on defense that half inning...once you get past that the catcher wears his gear if he is in the dugout.

Pitcher waits for the catcher? I can't believe you allow that or any of the other crap you say happens...there is a one minute limit timed from the third out. No wonder pace of play is always a POE when guys like you let 4 minutes go between every inning.

Most teams out here have someone ready to warm up the pitcher. If they don't, I tell them to get someone. The pitchers come right out and warm up, the catcher is ready by the 5th warmup, send it down, go to work, approximate elapsed time from 3rd out to first pitch: 1 minute.

That's what I was trying to get at. In most of my games a player who's on the bench puts on a mask and gets out there without my asking. Doesn't take long at all for the regular catcher to get out there.