So, the museum worker offers no assistance in the OP, eh?

I see your reading comprehension is at a high level !!!

Try adding something constructive for once!

Umpjong, we aren't going to change anyone's position on this. Those who want to squeeze every last out they can get, no matter in what manner it is accomplished, are going to continue to do so, no matter what common sense (not to mention fairness or decency) dictates.

Oh, so it's a character issue, too?

Geez. There's more friggin' straw men running through this thread than the hospitality bar at a scarecrow convention.

I concur with mbyron and the brilliant (and sharply dressed) former coach.

Wrong thread, huh Georgia? :D

Yeah. As soon as I realized it, I had to remove it. I had both open and forgot which one I was reading.

Agreed Steve

here is the OP

For those that will call the runner out on this play - GET READY because in all liklihood you will have to EJ the OM.

It will go something like this (after OM requests and is granted TIME)

Mgr: Blue why is my runner out.

Blue: he was tagged while off his base

Mgr: (thinking to himself -DUH) Blue my runner was pushed / shoved off the base.

Blue: No skip that's baseball

Mgr: You mean to tell me that it is ok for a fielder to push / shove runners off a base and then tag them for an out.

Blue: Skip that's the call time to play

The manager will most likely "go off" and say something like that's the worst f$$$$$$g call I ever saw. If that's the case then I will tell all my fielders to simply shove the runner of the base etc, etc. etc.

In other words - It's by by skip

Granted we cannot officiate because we do not want to get a manager mad. heck the mgr will get mad anyway. The point is this:

Did the fileder make a legitimate play on the runner and did the runner come off the base DUE to his OWN momentum not some "outside" factor.

In Summary: I agree with Steve in that umpires will call the way they want to see this play. I believe we all want outs. The question is this a LEGITIMATE out or looking for straws.

Now if it was 95 - 100 degrees and the game was at the 3 hr. mark and this SECOND out call ends the game then by all means it's time to go.

Pete Booth

Can you please answer my 2 previous questions along with a new one? Ill repeat them for you so you dont have to back track

What if the SS lowers his shoulder or puts his hands up in a "push up" like position, do you still have non-obstruction on the SS?

Is there a difference between blatant pushing or blatant shouldering or subtle forearm shove?

does it matter at all if the runner is paying attention [to the SS] or not?

Thanks

I understand it wont make any difference, but actually we need not look any further than the MLB rule book.

7.00—The Runner.
7.01 A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.

If you understand basic English, you will see that he must be put out prior (that means before) to losing his entitlement to the base. If you knock him off, you are violating/depriving him of his entitlement to the base.

I know you will dispute this (because you have all ready discounted a MLB hall of fame historian/author) but so be it. You still have produced nothing that supports otherwise. (except for, of course, your opinion)

A HOF historian/author how many of us had ever heard of? All I can see is that he writes an online column.

If it's on the internet it must be true.

BTW, the OP doesn't seem fair to me, but not because that article convinced me.

Just to clarify:

Bruce Markusen has worked at the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum since 1995. In September of 2000, he became the Hall of Fame's Manager of Program Presentations, after having worked as a Senior Researcher in the Hall's Library. In his various capacities at the Hall of Fame, he has written numerous articles for publication, conducted audio-visual interviews for the Hall's archives, and narrated Hall of Fame video productions.

Yes, I read the bio. So I neglected to mention he works at the HOF. And the big deal about that is...?

Thank you. Okay, how is everyone going to get around this rule so they can penalize the runner for standing on his base? Please produce an authoritative interpretation on this, so we can start questioning that person's sanity.

So I'm supposed to use my baseball acumen to discern if that fielder intentionally or unintentionally pushed that runner off the base? If you allow the runner to be tagged out after being pushed off the base, you're turning baseball into football. Not a good idea.

JJ

JJ,

Yes, you are supposed to use your baseball acumen to judge whether the fielder intentionally knocked the runner off the base or was making a legitimate effort to field the batted ball.

Like football, baseball is a "contact sport". Unlike football, it is not an "intentional contact sport".

As described, the essential question in the OP is whether anyone is "penalized" - or aspects of the play are "nullified" - because the result of the legal contact was the runner losing contact with his base and subsequently being tagged out.

To me, there is no basis in the rules for anything other than, "live ball, play the bounce". As it would be if the OP were changed so that the contact prevented the F6 from making the catch.

Legal contact, whatever happens, happens. Fair is actually playing by the rules rather than injecting a foreign notion of "fairness" because something weird happens.

I do not believe an "official interpretation" exists that would clarify the question.

JM