Catcher signal to manager - How do you deal?
 

Doing the best summer baseball around here, full of kids who play college ball or older guys who never made it out of A or AA.

Here's the sitch - a close pitch that I called ball. Catcher was calling his own game. He throws the ball back, looks into the dugout, and subtly slaps his shin guard.

Obviously, he's letting the manager know what he thought of the pitch.

How would you deal with this?

Here's what I did...

Me: "Does tapping your leg mean good call or bad call?"
F2: "Huh?"
Me: "On that close pitch, you letting your manager know what you thought?"
F2: "Just communicating"
Me: "Ok"

Critiques?

Is he not allowed to have an opinion or something?

Are you just trying to ridicule without offering any real advice? If you have some, I'd rather read that.

What does it matter if he is signifying to the dugout that he doesn't agree with the call? Are you going to get him on arguing balls and strikes? Let it go. Batters him and haw, huff and puff, lean back, etc, and you probably don't say anything to them. The catcher tapped his shin guard...seems pretty minor.

How do you know he wasn't signaling about a location they don't think you'll call, so to possibly work in a different location? Catchers at that level tend to pick up whether or not they will get certain spots, or at least I know I did. If they don't get a spot, they need to make a mental note if they are calling the game, or let the game caller know. It's baseball and they aren't insane (you know, the thing about doing the same thing and expecting different results). He's not going to stand up and say "he's not giving me the outer black" into the dugout, just like he wouldn't stand up and announce "throw a fastball on the inner half"...there is a sign for that.

You probably could have said "please don't signal to the bench after a close call" instead of "ok". Saying "ok" might make him wonder why you asked in the first place, and doesn't get your point across that you don't want him signaling.

It wouldn't bother me.

Thicken that skin!

Tuss,

I believe Brian's point was that the catcher was (likely) NOT "showing you up" by his action. If he does this in a way that nobody in the crowd is going to notice and you don't get a "chirp" from the coach in response, he didn't really do anything he shouldn't.

I might tell him "He needs to bring that in about a ball" or some such thing depending on where I thought it missed. I wouldn't ask him what he was doing.

JM

Was the pitch low perhaps? Slapping the shin is a pretty universal sign for 'it was down' (At least so far as the umpires zone that day).

When I played we used shin for down, knee for out & mask for up. Center of chest for "I have no clue what this clown is calling".

This is so low on my list of priorities to worry about, I can't remember the last time I thought about it during a game. Surely you have other things to think about when working the plate.

Picking up the wrong end
 

Don't let their actions bring out the worst in you.
Blaming umps for "bad" close calls is part of the big game atmosphere.
Glad it was a one time thing because it could have gotten out of control.
Think of the MLB ump who placed his hands on the back of the MLB hitter.
He was trying not to EJ, but it looked bad and made a simple situation worse.
The kids want to please the coach and the coach wants to please the parents.
Take the high road and control your unpleasant manner/input/actions.
It is hard to have anything good come out of something like this.

I feel like giving my own special signal here.:)

My opinion is similar to F1 taking signs. How in the heck do I know what tapping the shin guard means? For all you know, this "signal" could be anything from communication to a tick - you have no idea!

In short, leave it alone until someone actually comes to you and agrues balls & strikes. Then you can do something about it.

ok ... he could just be telling the manager where it was at so they can adjust. would you rather him do that or the manager yap about balls and strikes and the catcher keep relaying where it was at to him? its a good system for teams to use to adjust to what pitches you will call and what you wont and in no way show you up or anything. Let'em do it.

P.s. teams here do it ALL the time

My thing is how do you know it was a signal. He could have been adjusting the shin guard or knocking dust off. Making a big issue out of something which you have no idea of what he was doing is going to cause a problem. I would leave it alone and not question the catcher again about it.

He has done nothing to show you up. If anyone is going to, it will be the coach in this case b/c he will be the one saying something since the catcher is keeping quiet. Also, he may have been agreeing and telling the coach is was out of the zone. Who knows which is why you should leave it alone.

Exactly, who care what F2 thought about the pitch. Even with college kids a lot of them still don't know the zone - just watch some of the CWS.

Now some times early in a game if F2 starts yapping "good pitch" I might tell him, "no that's low" or "that's not a strike" just to help him know what the zone is for "today".

Thanks
David

I wasn't upset that he did it at all. In my conversation I showed no emotion and did not tell him to knock it off.

My goal, being a rookie to this league (and hence, in their minds, a rookie no matter how many games I've done), was to let the catcher know that I know what's going on and I wasn't an idiot back there. I figured it was a non-confrontational way to solidify myself back there, rather than not saying anything, manager eventually starting in, and me having to deal with it that way.

Any of that make sense? Should I be worried about solidifying my rep. as to minimize potential problems later? What are some other ways I can do this, if this way wasn't a good spot?

I think that you understand that there's an adjustment period for new umpires to adult leagues. One suggestion I would make is to let the catchers know at the beginning of the game that you're open to communication.

I will sometimes say, after introducing myself: "If you think that I'm consistently missing a pitch, please let me know between innings." This approach lets them know that I'm open to discussion, provided that it's discreet.

Wear a leather umpire shirt... your skin is way to thin!

1)Understood what you were trying to do.
2)No.
3)Call your game the best you can and they will learn what you will and won't call. Also, EJ when necessary and this will solidify them knowing what they can and can't do. Don't worry about what they are signaling/not signaling. Act like you don't even see it. If you get caught up with that little bit, you will miss something even bigger. Forget about it.

Be consistent. F2 was just communicating where the pitch was or where he wants it.

By the way, be consistent.





Did I mention, "be consistent"? :D

First of all don't assume that the players and coach only came out that day to make your life miserable. They are trying to play ball and sometimes can care less about you. Sometimes the best official is the one no one knows is there.

You want respect? Do your job, hustle, work hard to know the rules and get them right, and take care of business when you have to. Otherwise let them play ball.

Just remember, they can say and do anything they want during a game and you can't prevent it. But in the end YOU have the final say. How and what you say at that point will put the icing on the cake.

Sometimes the best call, is none at all.

Thanks for ya'lls input.

I'll restate briefly, not an issue of thick skin / thin skin. My goal was to let them know I'm no greenhorn that is clueless. I really don't care ever how players / coaches act - if they act a certain way there is a penalty of EJ that I will impose, but its because of what they did, not my reaction to it. Sounds like this philosophy is one some of you are suggesting, and one I'll make sure to keep in the fore front of my mind as I try to keep moving up.

Sounds like advice to reach that goal is just keep doing my best and respect / understanding will follow as more games and innings go by. No need in trying to force the issue in dealing with small stuff like this, even in the subtlest of ways.

Thanks again, and if these comments are off track with what ya'll are suggesting, feel free to whip me back into line. :D

Tao of Blue
 

In baseball participants can do whatever they want, but the umpire decides who is still a participant.

Things like this are how catcher's pass on info WITHOUT showing you up. Most spectators aren't going to notice it, and the catcher still tells a coach what he thinks. Most of the time when I see things like this, it's a catcher that knows his coach is a chirper and really doesn't like hearing it much, so he's indulging the guy. Of course, there are always exceptions. It's just something that comes with continuing to work the level and getting the nuances of the game.

I love working the college summer league out here; it's usually good baseball with guys that have a good grasp on what's going on and are pretty laid back after a tense regular/post season.

I would make note of it and that is all. Maybe you blew the pitch, sh*t happens you know. Watch the batter's reaction too. If he looks surprised then that is feedback also. As long as they are not chirpping about calls I could care less what they do, unless I am missing strikes and I hate when that happens.

I wouldn't have said a thing. There is a decent chance that signal could be a critque of your call. There is also a good chance he could be telling his infielders to shift or something like that.

I used to catch. I'd routinely adjust my gear for no reason.

Personally, I'd let it go. Don't umpire through a microscope.

There was nothing to "handle." The only opinion that matters is your partner's. Players/coaches generally know squat about umpiring. Their opinions of you (which you don't care about) are based 99% on how you call balls & strikes. Work on the proper use of your eyes and everything else will fall into place.

Don't go hunting...

Be cool :cool: