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-   -   Batter picks up live ball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/53603-batter-picks-up-live-ball.html)

falsecut Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:56am

Batter picks up live ball
 
I received this from a fellow umpire. I'm assuming that the batter picked up the ball after the runner had already crossed home plate. My dilemma with determining the correct call is that the interference rules cover plays where the batter interferes with a play at home (which in this sitch the play at home is over since the runner has legally crossed home plate before it occurs). This is youth in-house park district ball, FED rules. My thought is run scores, batter out, runner stays at third.

This is exactly how it was sent to me.
=======================================
How would you have called this?
No outs, runnners on 2nd and third.

Passed ball Runner on third scores. Man on second moves to third. The
throw from the cather to the pitcher on the play at home gets away and
the batter pickes up the ball. I was the field ump. I saw it called
dead ball. We then called the batter out. Was this correct and what
rule cover this.

GA Umpire Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:14am

My question is what play was being made? If no play, call Time and stop runners. Then, warn him.

If R2 was trying to score, then you have interference by a teammate not BI. So, 7.11 would apply in that instance and R2 would be out. Batter is not out in this case since it is no longer BI since he didn't interfere with the catcher's initial throw or play.

If R2 stops at 3B, then "Time" with a warning. If R2 tries to score with the possibility of a play to be made on him, then R2 is out by rule 7.11 otherwise, call "Time" and put him back at 3B with a warning.

That is how I envision making this ruling.

jwwashburn Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:48am

I agree GA, if there was no play being made and the offense realized no advantage, then why would the batter be out? I do not have the FED rules in front of me, but I recall the wording about a PLAY being made.

GA Umpire Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:57am

Oops, missed the disclaimer about FED rules. My interp is for OBR.

Blue37 Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 608504)
I agree GA, if there was no play being made and the offense realized no advantage, then why would the batter be out? I do not have the FED rules in front of me, but I recall the wording about a PLAY being made.

Would your answer change if you were the defensive coach and the game was a 9U game and the umpire was a young adult?

GA Umpire Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue37 (Post 608513)
Would your answer change if you were the defensive coach and the game was a 9U game and the umpire was a young adult?

Blue, I don't think this is the thread for that. Complain about it on his other thread. Don't chase to other threads. It ruins it for the rest of us on here.

bob jenkins Fri Jun 12, 2009 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Umpire (Post 608507)
Oops, missed the disclaimer about FED rules. My interp is for OBR.


it would be the same. No play, no interference.

falsecut Fri Jun 12, 2009 02:25pm

Let's assume a play, since I never said there wasn't. All I posted was that the ball was overthrown to the pitcher covering. Perhaps it would have gone all the way down the line giving the runner a chance to score from third had the batter not picked it up or perhaps the runner had rounded third and was part way down the line prior to the ball being picked up by the batter right in front of the third baseman.

I wasn't there so I don't have direct knowledge of where the other fielders and the other base runner were but let's say there may have been a potential play that was short-circuited by the batter and re-visit your rulings.

UmpJM Fri Jun 12, 2009 02:43pm

falsecut,

If no one on the defense has possession of the ball and there is not a throw on the way from one member of the defense to another, there is no play.

So, if the batter picks up a ball that is lying on the ground, there cannot be a play. J/R refers to it as "interference without a play". Call time, return runners, let the batter know he really shouldn't ought to do that, and get things going again.

JM

falsecut Fri Jun 12, 2009 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) (Post 608564)

If no one on the defense has possession of the ball and there is not a throw on the way from one member of the defense to another, there is no play. So, if the batter picks up a ball that is lying on the ground, there cannot be a play.

So if a runner (in any situation, not just this one) is in a disadvantageous position, and the ball gets away and falls to the ground, good offensive strategy might be for the batter or a coach to race to pick it up before the fielder does, no play and all is forgiven?

Quote:

J/R refers to it as "interference without a play". Call time, return runners, let the batter know he really shouldn't ought to do that, and get things going again.
Maybe I'm just not being clear. I'm trying to set this up as if the play was on-going. Runners could still be trying to advance. The ball could still be rolling. Whatever I'm trying to ask about, it's not supposed to imply that the ball has been lying on the ground for the last thirty seconds and the base runner has stooped over to tie his shoes while he standing on the base so the batter decides to grab the ball.

If it still doesn't make sense, then I'm going to quit while I'm ahead (or maybe it's behind). This puts me at three posts today already, way over my usual once a quarter pace.

socalblue1 Fri Jun 12, 2009 07:13pm

Craig,

Let's make it simple:

1. If play continues (Runners are still advancing) call time, batter out for interference & return runners to last legally obtained base.

2. Play is relaxed (IE: nothing more is happening) call time, advise batter (how strong the advice may be depends on age) & move on.

GA Umpire Sat Jun 13, 2009 06:49am

If there is a play possible on R2, then call "Time" and R2 is out for his teammates INT(Rule 7.11). Not the batter b/c BI does not apply anymore. BI relates to a catcher's initial play or throw. All BI rulings I have ever heard or seen relate to the catcher's initial play or throw. At this point, he is considered an offensive teammate and not the batter at this point. For this point, think of it this way. What if the on deck batter did it? What kind of INT would be called at that point? Rule 7.11 would apply there too. So, why wouldn't it apply here as well?

If there is no play possible on R2, then call "Time" and put R2 back on 3B. Then, tell the batter not to do that again with a warning(if you choose).

Of course, if R2 has already crossed or is within the immediate vicinity of HP and no play is possible, then I would score the run as well and tell the batter not to do that for future reference.

Forest Ump Sat Jun 13, 2009 09:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by falsecut (Post 608495)
Passed ball Runner on third scores. Man on second moves to third. The
throw from the cather to the pitcher on the play at home gets away and
the batter pickes up the ball. I was the field ump. I saw it called
dead ball. We then called the batter out. Was this correct and what
rule cover this.


The rule book(s) list every way a player can be out. This one isn't in there.


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