looking for advice
 

Was working a travel 15 game, my last game of 7 for the tournament, and I'm thinking how good of a job I'm doing so far in the tourney (my fourth year umping). This was pretty good baseball, anways, I'm PU and the visitors are up to bat in the last inning, down by 5 runs, runner on 3rd, 2 outs and the count is 3-0. Next two pitches I call strikes and the head coach goes bezerk. Walking all the way down from the 3rd base coaches box, screaming- and I mean screaming- about the last two strike calls. I call time, take off my mask and take a couple of steps so we are face to face and calmly tell him he can't argue balls and strikes. Still screaming- he says he's not arguing balls and strikes, the freaking (yeah, said freaking instead of fu**ing) ball was in the dirt. I look at him without saying anything else, and he turns around to walk back to the coaches box, still complaining about the calls. The runner ends up walking, the next batter strikes out swinging and game over.
My question, should I have ejected the guy, which I didn't because it was toward the end of game, he may have had a point (my partner didn't offer any help postgame as to whether the pitches were clearly balls), and I didn't want the coach to have to sit out the next game of the tourney.
Looking for experienced guys to guide me here.
Thanks.

You did right....he vented; it was late in the game....all's well that ends well...

Unless I am reading it wrong or missing something, I would give him a quick warning about arguing balls/strikes while he is in or near the coach's box, and then when he leaves that area to argue some more... bye-bye. Don't worry about them sitting out the next game, we don't eject them, they eject themselves with their demeanor and comments.

Not that I am one of them, but some might say you did a disservice to the next ump by not ejecting him, because he might feel that this behavior is allowed. I don't think that far into it, but in short he should not have been around to see the end of the game.

Kevin,

Dump him. First inning, last inning - doesn't matter.

It's not your concern whether he has to sit out the next game. If he wants to be there he should refrain from indulging in ejectable behavior.

JM

Ump Rube says: "and then when he leaves that area to argue some more... bye-bye."

I agree with you, but he didn't leave the area, he settled down and the game finished. How do you dump him when he goes back to his spot after the lecture and warning? What disservice did he do to the next guy? He did exactly as you said, warn and then dump if he continues, which he did not do, according to the OP.

I warn him while he is in the box/area (we all know they tend to roam a bit), and then when he leaves the box to come to me to argue I toss him. (I don't pretend this is MLB, but I think they have the idea right to toss the mgr when he comes out to argue balls/strikes).

Sometimes you just have to train the coaches.. Toss him.

Walking down the line screaming? Automatic three step process:

1. To batter: step out
2. Left hand removes mask
3. Wind up the eject-o-matic & send him to the parking lot

NEVER, EVER let a coach/manager get away with this type of behavior. Now the next crew has to deal with his BS. The only way these guys will learn that poor behavior has consequences is to pay the price.

What are the results from letting him off the hook?

1. Everyone at the game (Including the teams waiting for the next game) now sees you (And you partner) as spineless.

2. The next time you see this coach/manager he will start right where he left off. You look bad indeed for ejecting him then for exactly the same thing ignored the last time.

3. The 1st pitch this coach/manager does not like in the next game will result in an ejection - YOUR fault - because you didn't take care of business.

See the pattern?

I expect to take some lumps IN PRIVATE when I screw up. Coaches / managers with a clue understand how to do so & those who don't learn quickly enough by paying the price of an ejection or two. Some never get it or don't care (Bobby Cox for one).

The disservice is the next ump has to listen to a guy who should not be in the game in the first place. And, he did not do as told b/c he continued to complain about the calls. Obviously, it seems like the OP poster has regrets for not tossing since he is asking. Remember, we usually don't regret the ejections we do. We regret the ones we don't.

He should have been tossed with no regard to the inning or what happens later. He did it to himself. Get rid of him and teach him to keep his mouth shut next time.

Perfect example. A few years ago I ended up dumping a manager at the plate conference because a weak umpire failed to take care of the problem the game prior.

Managers comment as lineups are exchanged "Glad I don't have those idiots who cost us ...". He never finished the sentence or saw a pitch. At that point I had no knowledge of the last game as it was played on a different field.

Related later by other PU: Steal play at 2B, throw beat runner but very lazy/late tag & called safe. Next pitch base hit to put other team ahead for good. Manager came out & had words with BU that should have led to ejection (Very profane & personal). He had been riding the PU about his strike zone all game.

quote: " I call time, take off my mask and take a couple of steps so we are face to face and calmly tell him he can't argue balls and strikes."

My rule of thumb: If I have to remove my mask in the course of dealing with balls and strikes, somebody's getting dumped.

My math formula: Mask removed = ejection.

Hand up.

"THAT'S ENOUGH!"

If he says one more thing, or takes one more step, it's his choice.

It's that simple.

...and I didn't want the coach to have to sit out the next game of the tourney.

Again, it's his choice.

The next thing you should be typing, where the last set of dots are, was that you gave him the hook. You already warned him about arguing balls and strikes and he is still screaming. You have to now promote the assistant coach to the head coach position.

Always allow a coach to discuss things with you. Never allow a coach to scream at you! Dump 'em in the 1st inning or in the 9th inning, but never allow them to continue making a scene!

First, I really hate the phrase, "They eject themselves." They do not. If you doubt this at all please read the OP again and tell me where the ejection was.

To be correct, they display behavior worth of an ejection. We then do our job and eject.

In closing, I agree with Kyle's approach.

Hand up.

"Coach, that's enough."

Eject if objectionable behavior continues.

Remain calm. Put your hand up and say " I heard you, That's enough" When he continues, Toss him. Too many umpires let too many coaches get away with too much arguing. First inning, last inning, don't take this stuff. Be calm, be professional. Send the message that this is not tolerated. I am just fed up with the things summertime coaches think they can get away with.

I like Steve's approach. I would never give the coach a chance to get in my face. If he's screaming and coming to me, he's ejected, same as if a coach is running on the field.

Not much of a partner who can't tell you honestly if the pitches were ball, strike or close - hopefully he was watching ... (g)

Thanks
David

You're only second guessing yourself, because you did'nt toss him.

Are you serious? Or did you not want the OPoster to feel alone on this one?

[QUOTE]There is a difference between a coach venting and a coach going ballistic.

Since you had a tournament did you talk to other umpires who had this coach? Was he a pain in the you know what every game but no umpire took care of the problem.

I echo another poster. If this coach keeps 'walking" then eventually some other crew will have to handle things. It's one thing to let off steam it's quite another to go ballistic and ALSO walk all the way down from the 3rd base coaches box.

As soon as the coach went ballistic you should have called TIME and then said THAT'S ENOUGH. If he continued then you dump him. From my experience coaches do not all of a sudden change behaviors. It's my gut that this coach gave some others a hard time as well and no one took care of the problem. Eventually someone does.

Pete Booth

And for grins, don't forget the case of the eliminated team having someone using their elimination as a cloak to unload. A post game ejection is still valid and reportable from my perspective. Those that are CS enough to use that time to play the blame game are a step below those that lose it during a game and need to be dealt with.

Had a post game toss last night...

I did not speak to other umpires about the coach, the tournament was spread out through different fields/towns. I can see by all the responses (thanks for all that responded), that I should have ejected him. I didn't realize that by not ejecting, he will be more likely to keep doing it and I'm passing my problem along to another crew. My eyes have been opened and the feedback is much appreciated.

Nice!
Now you are learning! Never pass a problem on to another crew - eject when it is called for!

The only EJ's I regret are the couple I didn't pull the trigger on.

Harrumph!

A coach leaves the box and screams at me about anything and he is done. No warning is necessary.

Best advice tip!
 

Don't do that!

Basically, I am serious...after he vents, IF he quits.....no problem in my opinion...IF he continues, he gets dumped regardless of the amount of game time left....I give him "That's enough Coach," and we move on...unless he continues, and then he's gone.....

In the OP, the coach left his position in the coaches box and came down to the umpire to argue balls and strikes. This is an automatic ejection. He can bark a little from his box (or dugout), but when he approaches the umpire to argue balls and strikes, he's done.

I am sorry, and I guess I am the lone exception....but in HS ball, Varsity level, I will NOT dump the coach if he leaves the box and argues balls and strikes, THE FIRST TIME. He is very quickly going to get the warning...."That's enough Coach, we're done discussing balls and strikes!" The next word on the subject, and he's gone....That's my philosophy, and for me, it works....I NEVER have to look a coach, or another umpire, in the eye, and feel bad for ejecting or not ejecting.....I think you're WAY too quick if you jack 'em on the first leaving, even if they know the rules.....Just my opinion, and like I said, it works for me.....

Fine and dandy....but, you would allow one to scream at you?

I would never want to be partnered up with an umpire that would allow a rat to leave the coaching box and scream about pitches. Do it for your partner if not for yourself!

"That's enough" needs to be said when he first starts chirping or starts to leave his position to argue balls and strikes. This constitutes his warning. If he continues toward the plate, he's finished. I rarely have to eject anyone, because most coaches know better than to argue balls and strikes, especially with me, or other umpires I know that don't put up with that kind of shenanagins.

I also forbid any funny business or horseplay from coaches.

Ummm, I see...in addition to any shenanagins.:rolleyes::)

No, you are ABSOLUTELY right there! No screaming! I agree, with that he's gone....

And that's why I asked if you were serious on the older post. The OP stated "screaming" and leaving the box. To me, that's not venting, that's asking "may I please leave this game now, Mr Umpire, sir?"

"Why, yes. Yes, you may."

Ding!

Agreed!!!

Ahhh...

It appears Your Eminence has experienced an epiphany.

May the Lord be with you.

JM

FWIW: Bishopcolle is a word combined from two chess terms....wish I were an Eminence.....whatever that is....