Pickoff from the stretch position
 

I did a search on this one and couldn't find anything specific so please forgive the question if it's been covered and I couldn't find it.

As an assistant coach of a 12U all-star team I had a parent ask me this question last night and did not know the answer (we play under USSSA).

Can a pitcher make a pick-off attempt from the stretch position? I would think the same restrictions as from the set position (e.g., must step to the bag, can't fake to 1st, etc.) would apply but I couldn't find anything allowing/disallowing it in a review of the USSSA rules regarding balks.

Any assistance in clarifying would be appreciated.

Did you check rule 8.05 in OBR? That is where you will find your answer if USSSA has no specific provisions.

The rules are the same. He must gain distance and direction while throwing to a base, cannot feint to first, etc.

The stretch is a preliminary movement before the set. It's an option that still ends in a set. From the set position, the pitcher can step off, step and throw (feint to 2nd or 3rd), or pitch.

8.01 (c) At any time during the pitcher’s preliminary movements and until his natural pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw.

???
 

Actually I don't understand your statement.

There is a wind-up position and a set position.

A pitcher can step off, step and throw or feint (except to 1st in in contact with the pitcher's plate) ANYTIME during the activity associated with the set position. He does not have to attain any actual "set position" to do any of these things.

Tim
I was confused a bit after first reading that too, but I think it means that the stretch position is the beginning of (i.e., part of) the set position. As such it has the same limitations/allowances as the set position.

Forest - If I've misinterpreted your statement please let me know.

Welpe - I did just now check 8.05 and that seems consistent with USSSA. 8.01 quoted by Forest seems to address it specifically.

Tim...After reading that, I agree it was not very clear. I think the OP was asking if the pitcher could attempt a pick off during the stretch motion.

I was pointing out that the stretch is a preliminary movement associated with the set position. The pitcher does not have to use the stretch. It's an option. He can just join his hands, come set, and pitch or he can use the motion known as the stretch. He still must come set either way. He can pitch, step and throw or feint, or step off while making the preliminary motion to come set.

Rufus and I are both from Georgia. He knew what I meant.;)

Taking Signals
 

I thought the pitcher had to have his foot on the rubber to take signals before he becomes set. Not sure I understand "set". So, Pitcher places foot on rubber, brings hands together and pauses, then he can do pitch, step-off, throw to a base or feint.

Really?

Really.

Feint: deceive by a mock action; "The midfielder feinted to shoot"

F1 may do this to 2B or 3B.

Yes, but he cannot do this to first and the statement was worded universally. So, again: Really?

There are THREE things any pitcher can do after coming set. Pitch, disengage, step and throw to a base. (OBR 8.0)

You must write the FED tests.:D

Hmmm...I think I'm starting to feel faint.:rolleyes:

Hmm...so he can't balk??? or call time???

Don't you hate it when people just pick apart a logical response...me too..:D

Again, yes, really. Although the statement was worded universally, it was also worded disjunctively. So one of the things F1 may always do after coming set is to step and (throw OR feint) to a base.

Your way of stating the permissible actions is also misleading, since (by your reasoning) F1 may never feint to any base.

Now you're just being stubborn.

The obvious difference is that my list is what a pitcher ALWAYS can do to any base and is the wording found in 8.01 (b)

Next time you attend an Evans clinic and when he recites the three actions I listed, be sure to stand up right away and say "You forgot feint!"

We're speaking legal actions according to the rules here, genius. 8.01 (b) Trying reading it.

But since you enjoy playing the fool, F1 can breathe, day dream and scratch his a$$ if he'd like.

Funny, last one I went to, he remembered to say it. You're the one who forgot. :rolleyes:

After speaking with a couple of his instructors, the most polite thing I can say is your memory is incorrect. :rolleyes:


Whatever gets you through the night, "perfesser."

Like your other posts in this thread, you are again incorrect, as my memory is correct and confirmed by my notes.

Your personal comments about me do not support your case. But thanks for playing. Better luck in the next thread.

Isn't that cute. You have notes that agree with your position.

I had a perfesser like you at UW. He couldn't stand to be wrong either. He dodged, weaved and made accusations just like you.

I'll see your notes, raise you two fourth year insturctors and throw in my notes from school: (which, not coincidentally, are remarkably similar to 8.01 (b)

The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his entire pivot foot on, or in front of, and in contact with, and not off the end of the pitcher’s plate, and his other foot in front of the pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot.

Now then, as I've indicated before, this is the common, universal description of what F1 may do legally. It is not an exhaustive list by any means. But including the action of a "feint" to the list makes it far less accurate, unless one includes to where a legal feint may be made.

Have good evening perfesser. I see nothing to be gained by continuing a conversation with someone who just cannot admit to reality.

Good luck re-writing the JEA. Just refer to your notes.:D

Okay, I'm disappointed in the two you.

What I've read so far:

A poster wrote that a pitcher, from the set, can pitch, step off, throw to a base or feint.

Ump 153 posted what appears in the rule book, that being pitch, step off or throw to a base.

mbyron posted that the pitcher can also feint.

Ump 153 replied. basically, that feint is not included in the "common" phrase as it is not a universal rule.

Now it gets a bit pissy:

mbyron, while agreeing the post was meant universally, defended including "feint" never the less, with a slight jab at Ump 153.

Not to be outdone, Ump 153 jabbed back. with an elbow.

mbyron bobbed and threw a right cross.

Ump 153 ducked and went for an uppercut.

mbyron tried the old I'm right and I can prove it, just ask me.

Ump 153 responded with oh, yeah, you call that right?

No punches landed, no points scored, no blood let.



Okay, you guys. You both have a history of being better than this.

Ump 153: You are right, if you condition your statement with "as it appears in the rule book....etc.

mbyron: You are right, if you condition your statement with "in addition to what appears in 8.01, a pitcher may...etc.

Now, go in peace.