Sectional 1-0 controversy
 

Talked to my assignor today, he relayed what he heard on a FED sectional game, won by Dayton Fairmont over Cincy Elder, 1-0, when the Elder pitcher walked in the winning run,with 2 outs, bases loaded, to "end the game".

Seems the BR made it halfway to 1st, then stopped to celebrate with the team. F4 sees that, and goes over with the ball and touches 1st. Elder coach says run doesnt count- abandonment. One umpire had ruled out,BR finally touches 1st, the officials gather (supposedly look thru their rulebook, call state officials for opinions, finally rule safe, run counts.

Assignor says game was delayed 1 hr before final ruling.
Heres the Cincy article.

Elder loses 1-0 amid controversy | Cincinnati Enquirer | Cincinnati.Com

Great quote by the kid that walked to force in the run.

"Plus, it was a walk, so I thought it was a dead ball"

It never ceases to amaze me that players don't know or understand the rules to their own game

Wouldn't it be the coaches job to teach the players the ru....., oops, sorry, that would presuppose that the coaches knew the rules. What was I thinking?

Read your rulebooks. In OBR, during a walk, hit-by pitch, etc., the runner must proceed directly to first. Now this is based on the umpire's judgment of what is "a reasonable attempt" to achieve 1st base. The rulebook (OBR) states that a runner must proceed directly to first base in a "reasonable" fashon (not word for word, but I can look it up)...... again judgement call.

It doesn't matter that the ball is dead, if in the umpire's judgment, that he did not reasonably aquire 1st, then he is within the rules to put him out.

I didn't see the play, but if the guy merely stopped briefly on the baseline to shake some hands, and then proceeded to first, I wouldn't have called him out, however, if he left the baseline in any way (ie: to go to the dug-out, or even shifted direction 5-10 ft off his course to first, I would have called him OUT!

This was listed in the OP as a FED game.

~Cripes~
 

Read the OP then pop-off.

Fed. pg 48,49. 8-2 Art. 1 and Penalty (Art. 1-5)

8-2 Art. 1 An advancing runner shall touch first, second, third and then home plate in order, including awarded bases.

Penalty (Art. 1-5) For failure to touch a base (advancing and returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team.

As soon as the runner stops to "celebrate", he is fair game to be put out on appeal. The rule specifically says "shall" touch, it doesnt say that they may take their sweet time in doing so. I've got an out and play on.

Kudos to the second baseman for his knowledge of the rules...

As we know, there is no crying in baseball, and we should know that there are no detours either............

I dont see a rule on illegal celebration, specifically with regards to this OP, and wonder how you would rule when a batter hits a HR, and temporarily stops to shake his 3rd base coach's hand. Or maybe stops on his way to 1st to hand the coach his batting gloves while giving him a high five.

Your use of the words "shall touch" does not mean "immediately" or "take your time" in my opinion.

Sure, common sense dictates that at some point, the batter runner realizes his mistake and goes to 1st, or is told to go to 1st, or he sees/hears an attempted appeal on him which "wakes him up", or he ignorantly enters the dugout. Ruling an out in this OP was wrong. If I was BU, I'd keep my eye on batter runner- something will happen to make me rule correctly..

What interested me was not the fact that the officials eventually ruled correctly, but that 3 of them couldnt come to a decision on the field, looked in a rulebook, then called on a cell for outside help(per the assignor) which took 1 hr.
Frankly, thats embarrassing.

It really is. HS varsity playoff umpires. Make a call for crying out loud, and don't bring out the book either. You would dump a coach for doing that.

As long as the B/R touched 1st base before going into the dugout, he's good by me. Game over. Balls on the plate, head for the gate.

Unknown FED appeal
 

BRD 95 FED: A runner awarded first is out if he is not on base before the time of the next pitch, he reaches his bench or dugout, or the infielders have left the diamond. (8.1.1b)
OBR (4.09 Penalty.)

How long was the celebration?

There's aloso 9-1-1 Note 1 "The umpire shall not declare the game over until all runners have advanced to the next bse."

"During the controversy, Elder second baseman Selby Chidemo noticed Marcano had not touched first base and he went over and stepped on the base with the baseball in his glove. One of the umpires then ruled Marcano out. Marcano eventually left his group and touched first base in hopes of completing the play."

This sounds to me like he wasnt just delayed a second or two. Would like to see in real time, but "eventually left his group" and the time it would have taken F4 to retrieve the ball and go to first and get the umpires attention.....
Unless this sequence was less than a couple of seconds, I still have an out.... How long are you going to let him celebrate, and make the defense wait to appeal?

What was the defense going to appeal, and under which rule?

I got all day. F1 couldn't throw a strike so I certainly am not looking for the poopy end of the stick.

HR - Ball dead. Non-intentional walk - ball live. Different situations. Anyway, they got the call right, which is the important thing. The batter-runner touched first before the infielders left the diamond apparently.

I did read the OP, and that was the point. The OP said FED game. The response was talking about OBR, which can be different and not helpful, chief.

I'm pretty sure that was Tim's point (if you read it right).

touchy, touchy.. What about this one?
 

Nevada Class AAA Playoffs-Semifinal Game-Freakin" plate umpire calls home run hitter out and nullifies home run for high five of batter-runner by teammate before touching plate. What an effin moron. I looked up NIAA rules (regulations they call them) and went through my NFHS rule book and casebook and did not find any rule to warrant this one.

"Official Robbery: Umpire’s call ends SC’s season
By RYAN HOPE — Free Press Sports Writer
Saturday, May 23, 2009 4:06 AM PDT

LAS VEGAS — Spring Creek baseball coach Scott Gilligan could only hold back the tears so long. The final team huddle in left field is always a tough one.

The Spartans saw their season end Friday night with a 10-9 eight-inning loss to Virgin Valley in the 3A State Tournament. The loss was painful enough, but the way it happened made it all the more difficult to swallow.

Spring Creek defeated Truckee 4-1 earlier in the day to postpone elimination and had the opportunity to knock Virgin Valley — the team that defeated the Spartans in the 2008 state title game — out of the tournament as well.

The Spartans had their chances and got a big boost in the top of the eighth inning when senior Shane Irvin launched a three-run homer over the left-field fence to give Spring Creek a temporary 10-7 advantage.

The home plate umpire, however, called Irvin out at the plate because a teammate gave him a high five before he touched the base.

According to baseball and NIAA rules, the call was legit, but many questioned the need to make it at such a critical juncture of the game.

“I just don’t think you can call that at that point of the game,” Gilligan said. “That was a huge call. We still had chances after that (to win the game). Maybe we would have played a little differently defensively if we had that extra run.”

Exactly. Good point,

Terrible that playoff officials don't know the rules any better than these officials did.

Thanks
David

However, if you read 8.1.1 Situation B, and the rule it cites, you'll see that the casebook play and rule actually refer to a dropped third strike. Regardless of of what CC wrote, there is, I believe, a big difference between an awarded base (a walk) and a D3K. I don't think 8.1.1B is applicable in the OP situation.

I think Rule 2 sec 4 art. 4 sums it up.

The batter must go immediately to first base before time out can be called

That certainly sums up when time can be called.:rolleyes:

So the 2nd baseman should start yelling time, so then he could invoke this rule? Geez, give it up... The citation is in the definition of a walk, and to conclude that the only time you must immediately go to first base is when someone wants time is lets say remarkable. In your interpretation he may sit down and have a sandwich and then call his mother if he likes and then if and only when he is ready he may go to first. What time parameters would you place on him?

I'm just telling you that without seeing the play, it sure sounds like he made no effort to go to the bag until he saw something amiss. For me this is to late, and like I stated earlier, he better not have much of a delay getting there.

The pitcher threw Ball 4. I got all day. There is no way that, absent leaving the field, I would ever call this. I would wait until the defense started complaining, tipped off the runners, and they went to the next base. Then the game would be over and we would leave.

Ah, once again I
m ten minutes late to the party.

*facepalm*

I need sleep.

Skunk in the Infield
 

Apparently, the actions of the second baseman were not influential in this decision. This is not an appeal play. It falls under umpire judgement. The runner did not retreat past the plate during his celebration. The protest was denied after it was determined that a runner can only abandon the basepath after touching first base. Huh?

All you have done here is quote that TIME cannot be called before the awarded BR gets to 1st base. That was not the case here! As RichMSN stated, "I got all day!".

The mistake was that the BR assumed that the ball was dead - a mistake on his part. All the umpires have to do is wait in position until the BR either gets to his base or obviously abandons all attempt to get there (which is more than likely what is going to happen in a situation such as this).