Clapping by Base Runners
 

Last night I was BU for a U14 game (FED Rules), and near the middle of the game the runners for the team at-bat started clapping, not in uniform, in an attempt to distract the pitcher during his preliminary motions, and hoping the pitcher would balk. My partner, PU called time, and announced that the offending team should stop immediately. (Personally, I thought it was a little nit-picky, but I had no real problem with the call). One of the base coaches starts yelling, "it doesn't say we can't clap in the rulebook". After the inning, my partner gave the explanation to the HC that he thought it was unsportsmanlike to do during a U14 game (or any game, really), and that he wouldn't have any of it. The coaches respected the reasoning, and it wasn't escalated any further.

Now, I haven't had a chance to get into my rulebook yet, but would this be considered a proper use for using a unsportsmanlike conduct rule from the book? Also, could it be considered offensive interference, since the offensive team is using this tactic to distract the defensive team, and while it isn't verbal, it is still audible for everyone to hear?

Thanks!

If you're playing FED, it's illegal. Also a bit bush league.

Yes, it was very bush league. Also, the assistant coach gave me the great line of "We were showed in the rulebook and allowed to do it during a tournament". :rolleyes:

Bush league, definitely. But is it truly illegal? I suppose an umpire could interpret it to be unsportsmanlike, but I think he'd be opening a can of worms in doing so.

I'm a bit confused. Were the runners not wearing their uniforms, or did you mean they were clapping, but not in unison?:confused:

An obvious point is being missed
 

The runners were clapping for the high-quality work done by the umpiring crew, therefore it is not illegal to do.... :eek:

I believe that the rule he would use to enforce this would be 3-3-1o "call 'time' or use any command or comit any act for the purpose of causing a balk."

Let's just play ball!

Thought of that possibility, but if the same players were clapping while yelling encouraging words to their teammate at bat, you wouldn't claim they were acting unsportsmanlike, would you?

I completely agree. That is what I figured that he used. To me, let's just play ball. That is what it is about. As an official we must use our judgement to determine what their actions are meant to be. I figure that is a tough sell on clapping trying to cause a balk. I personally wouldn't have anything.

would have to see it and hear it to make a judgment on that one. i've seen a lot of bush league stuff. if this were the case...i'd probably let it go...after all, teams certainly have the right to cheer for their team.

"Coach, the rulebook does say I can eject for unsportmanlike conduct. Do I need to continue?"

Cool
 

I wouldn't call him a pitcher if clapping led to a balk call against him.

Here the team in the dugout stands on the leading edge, claps and yells, "Rip it. Rope it." They do it for every batter. Probably have a few more in their repitour. Every now and then a good one-liner comes out of the dugout at the end of one of those chants that make the fans in the stand laugh. All part of the baseball "playing" atmosphere.

When I talked to the assistant coach, I made it clear that your players in the dugout can absolutely clap and cheer on their batter at the plate. It's when they do it on the field to distract, that we would have a problem.

I found the rule, as someone had mentioned 3-1-1o, "A coach, player, substitute, or attendant shall not call "time" or use any command or commit any act for the purpose of causing a balk.

So, this is definitely a judgment call for the umpire. I know it can be conceived as nit-picky, but it can also just be effective game management for the umpires as well.

Whether we think the guy on the mound is worthy of being called a pitcher or not is irrevelant. Whether the guy in the 1 position is me or Roy Halladay (FED), he's afforded the same opportunity to pitch w/o the offense attempted to illegally cause him to balk.

If it ain't bush league, then I wonder why they will be wearing an imprint of the seams on their ear if they ever get into higher leagues, and maybe a few shiners from the scuffle if they go after the pitcher.

Sounds like my daughters (and college for that matter) softball games...

No big deal, the pitcher just needs to pitch...a shot to the earhole is not out of the question...but if a team wants to act like that, be the bigger man (or team in this situation)

Are you sure this wasn't 8U??

Any type of cheering/clapping - don't pick that booger. It's baseball.

I've read the posts and I must say that I am very amazed with the amount of umpires that like to make up rules and adjust rules to fit situations. If a pitcher cannot endure clapping from a base runner, then he should not be on the mound. What do you want, silence out there? If you do, then go officiate golf, because that is the only sport that I know of where you are supposed to be quite during play!

There are enough rules out there, start learning them and using them correctly!

Finis

3.1.1DD: Players from Team A begin taunting a player from Team B. RULING: If, in the judgment of the umpire, the infraction is of a minor nature, then the umpire shall issue a team warning to the coach of the involved players. Otherwise, the umpire shall eject the players, which also shall serve as a team warning.

If the umpire thought it was taunting, then he was correct. Otherwise, let them clap.

Preach on, brother Ozzy!

I'm with you, and have a hard time believing anyone would consider clapping a rules infraction. Bush league, sure, but not against the rules.


Tim.

For HS ball and up, I say: "you want 'em to shut up? Get a double play."

Gentlemen, based upon the description of this alone, this is a rules violation.

I agree with Ozzy that some officials "like to make up rules and adjust rules to fit situations," however, there are many out there that don't have the gioonies (SP) enough to use the rules that are in the book appropriately and make it a hey-day for other officials when they do.

I have no problem with cheering, clapping and team spirit encouragement but, when the so intent is to gain an advantage in violation of the rules then it is my job to enforce them. I agree it is umpires judgement here but, I have had situations with runners on third clapping and yelling at the pitcher with a clear intent to get the pitcher to balk. "Hey Blue, no one ever said that was illegal before." Whole teams beginning rythmatic chanting only when a runner is on third and the pitcher is come set. It then increases in volume as the pitcher gets ready to pitch. "Hey Blue, no one ever said that was illegal before."

For the most part, I agree with everything said here but, I just want to point out that discretion is just as important in knowing when not to insert yourself in the game, as it is when you should be enforcing the rules.

Bush league. But sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do I suppose. Not everyone plays the game the right way.

How is it different than F4/F5 tapping their gloves behind R2 as they move back and forth, trying to keep him closer to 2B? That's also intended as a distraction, and no different than a runner clapping his hands while leading off. Are players really THAT mentally fragile that they can't perform under the slightest pressure?

Clear intent ? Perhaps they are merely trying to put the pitcher's focus on themselves (the baserunners), rather than his duty at hand, making a quality pitch. I draw a distinction between attempting to cause a balk and "shaking up" the pitcher. There is no rule, of which I am aware, that would prevent a runner from attempting to unnerve the pitcher.

...yes, of course bush league....and the higher levels of ball you do, you dont (usually) see that.
At this level, a little bit of "sometimes you just gotta umpire" might work. And in this case maybe a word to the coach between innings.

Call him over, take out the line-up, as if thats what the conversation is about, and maybe something like:

.."Coach, Im not one to dampen enthusiasm, but is the clapping thing really necessary? I mean, whats next, 'hey batter-batter'?"....

Ive used that a few times on similar situations (you have to pick your spot), but its always worked, the coach feels that his team is being looked upon as having to resort to "ankle-biter" tactics to try and win, as opposed to just playing the game.

They stop that crap...at least for that game..

I have had coaches complain about the bench chanting and the runner clapping. To be honest, I didn't notice it until it was brought to my attention.
The way I fugured was, if I am that focused on my job, the players should be that focused on theirs! I block it out and do nothing. Don't get that in HS and up.

The sad part is, I've seen it in HS and up. Usually by teams with poor quality coaching.

Wellllllllll, lets see here. how about the umpire stated that he determined what the intent of the runners was, to get the pitcher to balk.

How is it different? Let see here!!!! One is a rule violation the other is not.

The fragility of the players has NOTHING to do with this. Were talking about an officials ability to recognize a rule violation and enforce it, (when it is necessary).

Okay, since your hands are already covered from the s---ty end of the stick (hope you wore gloves!), let me ask this:

In Fed, a pitcher can't pickoff from the windup. So, a lot of times, R3 will take off way down the line from third and bluff a steal. Why? To distract the pitcher - and maybe to get the pitcher to balk. You calling that, too?? Do you think the two things are equal, and do you can them the same?

And back to my other comment: when an infielder is tapping his glove behind the runner, one can make the argument he's hindering the runner, since that runner may take a smaller lead, or be going the wrong way when the pitch is delivered. So that could be called a rules violation, too. (I know: the runner should be listening to a coach. And whatever pitcher is bothered by The Clapper should be worrying about pitching, too.)

What I'm saying is: don't extend every little thing that happens on the field into something to be ruled upon. Some parts of the game can go on without us. Or they'll be policed by the players. And my disagreement with you is that the umpire in question determined this was an attempt to draw a balk, and warranted a warning, and you agree with that; I don't. Therefore, I disagree it's a rule violation.

Wow, youse must be one of doze superumps. You can even officiate games haveing never even seen em. Amazing. Not too good at reading though.

"(when it is necessary)".

As far as the fielder tapping his glove, come on now, I've been around too long to even begin to think that is a hinderance. Hopefully so have you.

Now for the runner at third!! I'll go one better than your example. (Actually happened) The runner takes the same type of lead and begins to specifically yell at the pitcher, at the top of his lungs "Hey Pitch". Your gonna let that go too?

Then I guess your going to let the pitch to that players head go too, just to even things up. Right? Hell, they probably don't even need you at the game because besides balls and strikes you can't be bothered with all those silly rules you don't agree with. Just get a parent out there for a hot dog and coke.

I truly believe your better than that.

And all I have been saying all along here is WHEN the obvious happens during a game , do your job and MAKE THE DANG CALL.

I guess I just suck, then. All I've been trying to say is there wasn't a call to be made, as I don't see the 'obviousness' you're mentioning, and I'm not alone, from what I've looked back and read. (Even though reading is apparently not in my skill set, either.)

I will certainly agree with the general statement: WHEN something happens, make a call. That's a "no s---" one, there.

What I've been trying to get across is, in MY opinion - but remember, I suck - this is NOT one of those times. A couple posts ago, you said: My point: that umpire was wrong. Sure, he made a call when he saw an 'obvious' rule violation; good for him, and good for his convictions. But he saw a 'rule violation' that wasn't there. So he's wrong.

And sorry that I'm "officiating games having never seen em." Maybe your brilliant discourse has confused me, but when we talk about games and situations in an Internet forum, and say "what we had," isn't that the friggin' point?? - officiating something we weren't there for?

"Orderly Minds, Friendly Gentlemen"
 

Applause to you both. You made some good points on each side. Kinda philosophical in a way, with no "ideal" right answer. I am wiser to learn and consider both sides of the argument and use them as I feel best on the ball field.

Order My Frijoles, Girls. :)