How should I have handled this

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

TO HOKIEUMP:

I did not address it during the game because I thought the chance of them doing anything was remote. They have idiot rats chewing on them all the time. In the heat of the moment, there would be no way for them to distinguish me from an idiot rat.(be quiet Steve! I left the door wide open, I know, I know)

Fair enough. I just feel that, if you wanted the call correct at the time, that's when you need to address it - at that time. If your priority is a 'learning experience,' I still submit that immediately post-game - where they still only know you as Rat, not Fellow Umpire - isn't the place. If Rats want us to "stay out of my dugout," then my reply to Rats is "stay out of my ... er, area-behind-my-trunk-where-I-change."

I approached after the game and asked "May I ask you a question?" Only then did I do it. I had hoped to encourage him to look at the book. When I saw that I was dealing with know-it-all punks, I chose to walk away. I was convinced that my approach was correct..I posted here for feedback.

And that's my feedback - don't go in that 'space' after game. If you didn't want to hear a/my dissenting opinion, don't ask the question.

Look, I have no reason to believe that you were anything but polite, from what I read on the forum. And there might have been more crap flung back at you than should have been, since you're talking about not-quite-fully-formed adults. But I think there's been a tangent or an agenda, because they weren't fully grown men - maybe not by you, but it's certainly coloured the opinions of others here. Are people saying they don't have "know-it-all punks" in their associations, of any/every age group? Really? If so, I want in YOUR group!

And even if you went in with the best of intentions, it's hard to say how THEY felt as they were changing. After some games I do, I'm not in a happy mood: either the play was miserable, I might have kicked something - or at least am unsure of something I did/didn't do - the coaches may have been right b@st@rds, it's hot, etc, etc. The last thing I want is a coach to come and ask a question, then tell me "I think it would be a good idea for you to look that up in your rules book later on." You're telling me "You need to learn the rules," no matter how nicely you've phrased it; since I haven't told you "You need to learn how to coach" - and, boy, many games offer up THAT thought in my head - then don't come telling me how to do my job.

Again, you asked for feedback in the OP, you got it.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

... The last thing I want is a coach to come and ask a question, then tell me "I think it would be a good idea for you to look that up in your rules book later on." You're telling me "You need to learn the rules," no matter how nicely you've phrased it; since I haven't told you "You need to learn how to coach" - and, boy, many games offer up THAT thought in my head - then don't come telling me how to do my job.

Again, you asked for feedback in the OP, you got it.

You are applying adult standards and manly respectability to children who haven't earned a shred of it.

Joe's instinct was to make these two smart-a$$es aware of some of what they need to learn to merely function in the role that they are already pretending to fill and maybe help them stop cheating little kids with their shoddy, uninformed work. Any experienced umpire who offers any beginner some umpiring tips should be received respectfully and without hesitation.

An experienced adult umpire being approached at the car by a coach is an entirely different situation. For that, there is an established standard that is not in place for children posing as umpires.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You are applying adult standards and manly respectability to children who haven't earned a shred of it.

Joe's instinct was to make these two smart-a$$es aware of some of what they need to learn to merely function in the role that they are already pretending to fill and maybe help them stop cheating little kids with their shoddy, uninformed work. Any experienced umpire who offers any beginner some umpiring tips should be received respectfully and without hesitation.

Wow. Seriously, you have some hostility issues with America's youth, mate.

One, I don't think Joe felt they were smart-asses, and they were "pretenders" and they were "cheating little kids" BEFORE he approached them - that sounds more like your emotions painting the post.

Two, no where in Joe's OP says that he approached them as an "experienced umpire" offering "umpiring tips." IIRC, he asked if could ask a question, but did not ID himself. So again, you're looking to just hammer these kids because they're, well, kids.

KF, if a coach - again, Joe was a COACH and not ID'd otherwise - had come to you and, in the course of the discussion, said "you should learn the rules" in so many words, would you have liked it, and said "why, I'll take that on board!"? Really?

An experienced adult umpire being approached at the car by a coach is an entirely different situation. For that, there is an established standard that is not in place for children posing as umpires.

Yeah, and it's called when-the-coach-comes-to-your-car-after-the-game-to-b!tch-you-tell-him-to-eff-off.

If this was truly meant to be a learning experience, go to the assignor or the UIC of the league, and voice concerns.

You're acting as though only those under 21 f--- up OBS calls. And you're acting like that scary guy at the end of the block who has a 40-year collection of balls, bikes, kites, etc. from the neighborhood children.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

And you're acting like that scary guy at the end of the block who has a 40-year collection of balls, bikes, kites, etc. from the neighborhood children.

Hey, dont bring me into this fight.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Hey, dont bring me into this fight.

Sorry. Sometimes, collateral damage may occur.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Joe's instinct was to make these two smart-a$$es aware of some of what they need to learn to merely function in the role that they are already pretending to fill and maybe help them stop cheating little kids with their shoddy, uninformed work. Any experienced umpire who offers any beginner some umpiring tips should be received respectfully and without hesitation.

I see 2 mistakes in the OP. The 1st is the coach approaching the umpires post game. The 2nd is the reaction from those umpires. Mistakes on both sides.

Joe posted only 2 complaints about the umpires, so "cheating little kids with their shoddy, uninformed work" is not a valid statement and over the top. I'm sure I've kicked a couple in a game once but wouldnt describe my actions like you did.

And we all have heard a coach claim "but I'm an umpire, so.." and realize that its (true or not, mostly not) just a ploy to get his way. Good umpires that coach should know to leave their officials hat at home, and not try to use that to get their way. So in this sich, Joe wasnt an experienced umpire offering tips to beginners, he was a coach, plain and simple....