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-   -   Basic Question #4 (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/53135-basic-question-4-a.html)

Tim C Sat May 09, 2009 09:59am

Basic Question #4
 
During the pre-game plate conference you say to the coaches:

"Are all your players legally and properly equipped including no jewelery?"

Both coaches mutter:

"Yes."

Now it is the fourth inning and the batter at the plate has complained, muttered, shook his head at a few of your calls.

You have reached the point that you would really like to dump him but he has not gone quite over your "line".

As you call strike three with your best Leslie Nielsen dance steps the batter walks past you giving you the REAL FU stare.

You notice at this precise instant that he is wearing a silver necklace.

You loudly announce to the crowd of seven:

"You're GONE for wearing jewelery!!!!"

Are you correct in your ruling?

UmpTTS43 Sat May 09, 2009 10:10am

Ideally, yes.

By the book, no.

Good news, bad news son. Good news, you get to keep your pretty necklace on, bad news, you have to wear it in the parking lot. Your done for arguing balls and strikes. :D

johnnyg08 Sat May 09, 2009 10:14am

Nope. Similar to the "in the news" college softball homerun gets taken away this is a warning to the coach of the team involved and the next offender on that team shall be ejected.

ManInBlue Sat May 09, 2009 10:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 600854)
You loudly announce to the crowd of seven:

"Your GONE for wearing jewelery!!!!"

All seven of which KNOW there is no rule about wearing jewelry. Manny, Big Pappi, Jeter, A-Rod...they all wear necklaces. You had it out for this well behaved, honor roll, church going kid and made up some BS to throw him out.

Oh, sorry, back on topic. No,you are not correct. You can run him for the FU/arguing thing, but not for wearing a necklace - warn the team, then start dumping the idiots that just don't get it.

Ump153 Sat May 09, 2009 10:42am

Tim -

I think I've figured it out. Either your are bored in retirement already or little Rei is screwing up right and left.

Emperor Ump Mon May 11, 2009 11:04am

So many times I've wanted to dump a coach when I have to delay my game to have a kid remove his jewelry. The coaches have stated their people are legally safely and properly equipped and lied to me.

spokanelurker Mon May 11, 2009 10:11pm

Wow!
 
Delay your game?

Klokard Tue May 12, 2009 12:14am

If you feel the need to dump him for arguing B&S, do so. Don't reach for infractgion at this point. Not worth it. Second game of the series, as at the plate meeting "including non authorized jewelry or pendants" and stare the coach in the face. Warning done.

Umpmazza Tue May 12, 2009 12:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInBlue (Post 600870)
All seven of which KNOW there is no rule about wearing jewelry. Manny, Big Pappi, Jeter, A-Rod...they all wear necklaces. You had it out for this well behaved, honor roll, church going kid and made up some BS to throw him out.

Oh, sorry, back on topic. No,you are not correct. You can run him for the FU/arguing thing, but not for wearing a necklace - warn the team, then start dumping the idiots that just don't get it.

I think Tim_C is talking about HS rules.... and in HS you can wear Jewelry.

Welpe Tue May 12, 2009 12:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umpmazza (Post 601398)
and in HS you can wear Jewelry.

Assuming you're talking about NFHS rules, are you sure about that?

Klokard Tue May 12, 2009 12:50am

Fed rule requires ANY jewelry to be necessary ie. medical tags and MUST be taped over and/or secured to the body.

UmpTTS43 Tue May 12, 2009 02:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emperor Ump (Post 601231)
So many times I've wanted to dump a coach when I have to delay my game to have a kid remove his jewelry. The coaches have stated their people are legally safely and properly equipped and lied to me.

Booger picking and I dont have a Kleenex. "Take it off, please." Game continues.

mbyron Tue May 12, 2009 06:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umpmazza (Post 601398)
I think Tim_C is talking about HS rules.... and in HS you can wear Jewelry.

What part of 1-5-12 don't you understand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rule 1-5-12
Jewelry shall not be worn (See 3-3-1d) except for religious or
medical medals. A religious medal must be taped and worn under the uniform. A
medical alert must be taped and may be visible.

3-3-1 prohibits jewelry on players who participates in the game.

johnnyg08 Tue May 12, 2009 08:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umpmazza (Post 601398)
I think Tim_C is talking about HS rules.... and in HS you can wear Jewelry.

really? aside from a medic alert bracelet or religious adornment taped to the inside

"must be a new rule this year"

ozzy6900 Tue May 12, 2009 08:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 601412)
3-3-1 prohibits jewelry on players who participates in the game.

Yes FED 3-3-1 is correct but others are failing in the penalty:

FED 3-3-1
PENALTY: At the end of playing action, the umpire shall issue a warning to the coach of the team involved and the next offender on that team shall be ejected......... (the rest not relevant to this situation)

The NCAA rule is pretty much the same - warn then eject.

OBR has no "jewelry rule" unless you are dealing with professional baseball, you would defer the penalty to the League Rules of the League that you are working for. Typically, most youth sports leagues do not want players wearing jewelery for safety reasons.

Emperor Ump Tue May 12, 2009 08:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by spokanelurker (Post 601377)
Delay your game?

Yes my game. I'm the one in control of the game and one of my many tasks is to manage the pace of the game, in fact it was a POE this year. I hate calling time unnecessarily and calling it for taking jewelry off when the coach has assured me they weren't wearing any. Grrrr..

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43 (Post 601406)
Booger picking and I don't have a Kleenex. "Take it off, please." Game continues.

Definitely booger picking. Haven't done it wouldn't do it, but every time it happens this is what's going through my mind.

bob jenkins Tue May 12, 2009 08:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 601427)
The NCAA rule is pretty much the same - warn then eject.

NCAA players are allowed to wear jewelry (unless it's F1 and distracting, ...)

jwwashburn Tue May 12, 2009 09:02am

This thread pushed me over the edge.
 
you’re
Contraction
Definition: you are

---------
your

adjective
Definition:

1. belonging to person spoken to: refers to something that belongs to or relates to the person who is being spoken to
What's your phone number?

2. belonging or relating to somebody: refers to something that belongs or relates to an unspecified person or people in general
The house is on your left as you come down the street.

3. indicates typicality: refers to somebody or something as a typical example of a familiar type ( informal )
your typical neighborhood park

tcarilli Tue May 12, 2009 09:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 601432)
NCAA players are allowed to wear jewelry (unless it's F1 and distracting, ...)

Also, there is no warning. The penalty is remove the distracting item or be ejected.

Tim C Tue May 12, 2009 10:04am

Mr Washburn
 
Quote:

"This thread pushed me over the edge."
So, in your opinion, it is my job to edit a complaint that has been sent to me.

The OP was cut/paste from the complaint from the AD of the school with the ejected player.

You must stand pretty close to edges.

UMP25 Tue May 12, 2009 10:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 600854)
During the pre-game plate conference you say to the coaches:

"Are all your players legally and properly equipped including no jewelery?"

Both coaches mutter:

"Yes."

Now it is the fourth inning and the batter at the plate has complained, muttered, shook his head at a few of your calls.

You have reached the point that you would really like to dump him but he has not gone quite over your "line".

As you call strike three with your best Leslie Nielsen dance steps the batter walks past you giving you the REAL FU stare.

You notice at this precise instant that he is wearing a silver necklace.

You loudly announce to the crowd of seven:

"You're GONE for wearing jewelery!!!!"

Are you correct in your ruling?

Along these lines, you're working an NCAA D3 conference game when you notice the batter is wearing a helmet that has a 2-inch crack on the side facing you (opposite side of the pitcher). The crack is where the visor meets the head casing. Do you ignore it because of the crack's location? Do you ignore it because it's not really that big and has not caused the helmet to really "split"? Do you tell him to get a new helmet?

Well, I was the plate umpire in this situation when I simply but politely approached the batter and told him to get a new helmet. After his at-bat, the next two guys had a similar problem: they were wearing cracked helmets as well--and not the same helmet, either. Head coach looks at me and says, "We're running out of helmets."

Like that's my problem. You'd think this was a no-brainer.

bob jenkins Tue May 12, 2009 10:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UMP25 (Post 601445)
You'd think this was a no-brainer.

It would be, if they got hit.

UMP25 Tue May 12, 2009 10:21am

Indeed.

jwwashburn Tue May 12, 2009 11:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 601444)
So, in your opinion, it is my job to edit a complaint that has been sent to me.

The OP was cut/paste from the complaint from the AD of the school with the ejected player.

You must stand pretty close to edges.

Tim, you get paid very well! Of course it is your job!

ManInBlue Tue May 12, 2009 07:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umpmazza (Post 601398)
.... and in HS you can wear Jewelry.


Uh...nope.

As previously posted (sorry, I didn't read after the quoted post before posting)

spokanelurker Tue May 12, 2009 10:22pm

Emperor...
 
...didn't anyone ever tell you that you're an extra, not a star? The best game you ever work will be the one after which no one remembers who you are. Seriously.

Rich Tue May 12, 2009 11:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by spokanelurker (Post 601635)
...didn't anyone ever tell you that you're an extra, not a star? The best game you ever work will be the one after which no one remembers who you are. Seriously.

"One of the really wrong theories about officiating is that a good official is one you never notice. The umpire who made that statement was probably a real poor official who tried to get his paycheck and hide behind his partners and stay out of trouble all his life. Control of the ballgame is the difference between umpires that show up for the players and the managers." - National League Umpire Bruce Froemming

Tim C Tue May 12, 2009 11:16pm

Rich
 
Spokanelurker is just another idiot from Garth's area that does not understand umpiring.

We deal with twits everyday.

Trolls are just part of message boards.

Regards,

UMP25 Tue May 12, 2009 11:31pm

Indeed, Tee. I had a couple of them tell me how unprofessional I was when I ejected a head coach recently (see "they changed the balk rule thread").

Kevin Finnerty Wed May 13, 2009 12:30am

A couple of them?

We're umpires who don't bait and eject coaches and we differed with you. You baited a coach and ejected him and then boasted about it. What's that ... professional?

UMP25 Wed May 13, 2009 06:46am

Uh, no. I didn't "boast" about it. I'm never proud or happy to eject someone. However, this doesn't mean I don't find some of what coaches say to get ejected rather humorous.

ozzy6900 Wed May 13, 2009 06:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by spokanelurker (Post 601635)
...didn't anyone ever tell you that you're an extra, not a star? The best game you ever work will be the one after which no one remembers who you are. Seriously.

ROTFALMAO! Where did this guy get off the bus? Maybe he's a reject from a local T-Ball league!

Rich Wed May 13, 2009 08:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 601670)
ROTFALMAO! Where did this guy get off the bus? Maybe he's a reject from a local T-Ball league!

He probably thinks he "works for the coaches" and "it's all for the kids" too.

jkumpire Wed May 13, 2009 08:55am

Please, have a clue
 
I get tired of some of this stuff...

Last weekend I ejected 2 high school coaches on Saturday, and a college head coach on Sunday, and they had one thing in common; They ejected themselves. It was their actions that got them ejected, a good umpire simply needs to do what he is asked to do.

To so many people who are on here complaining about ejections, get over it. The last thing I, or any good umpire wants to do is eject someone. I try very, very hard to keep coaches around in any game. In the first post, there was probably more than just the barebones description to warrant the ejection.

UMP25 Wed May 13, 2009 09:18am

So you ejected two coaches in one week? What an ego you must have! Kevin F. would never have done that!

johnnyg08 Wed May 13, 2009 09:21am

I think umpires who don't eject when they should eject make things worse for every umpire to follow them...generally speaking, it doesn't make you a better umpire because you don't eject when you have to eject. I'm not saying that we have to have a hair trigger, but when it's necessary, if for nothing else, we owe it to our other umpires

MajorDave Wed May 13, 2009 11:11am

I remember hearing (reading) it somewhere, probably here, that you eject coaches (and sometimes players) for the 3 (or maybe 4) P's-1. Profane, 2. Personal, 3. Prolonged. Those are what I remember. I have ejected for all three and for bad sportsmanship by players like throwing equipment or threatening another player with cursing involved.

I have refused to dump a coach or two for prolonged arguing and a little personal but it was to make them continue to suffer in bad weather and/or bad baseball (usually both) just like the rest of us.

I told a college coach this spring, "Sorry Wayne, you aren't getting out of here that easily, you gave birth to this ugly baby of a game and you have to stay here and watch it die like the rest of us." His team was losing 18-2 in the 8th and I had just rang up his batter for out #3 from 1B on a check swing appeal by my partner. He accused me of "You're cheating these kids. They are playing their butts off and you make a call like that. You're cheating these kids." It was so ludicrous and over the top I actually laughed out loud at him, told him what I quoted earlier then jogged to my spot in RF while he stood there with his hands on his hips. I still laugh when I think about it. He did not and could not say anything else.

It was a smart assed comment by me but it was deserved (in my opinion). He was just trying to get dumped to get out of the worst game his team had probably ever played and I just could not give him the satisfaction. I would have dumped him if he had cussed but I think he was a coaching for a Christian school so no cursing.

UMP25 Wed May 13, 2009 11:25am

I await Kevin's comment that you acted unprofessionally and exemplified your rather large ego.

Umpmazza Fri May 15, 2009 10:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 601399)
Assuming you're talking about NFHS rules, are you sure about that?

I meant to put you can not wear .... Sorry i just say my mistake...LOL

SanDiegoSteve Fri May 15, 2009 10:34pm

You could just say it like Borat: In HS you can wear jewelery.....NOT!

Bishopcolle Sat May 16, 2009 07:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 601720)
I think umpires who don't eject when they should eject make things worse for every umpire to follow them...generally speaking, it doesn't make you a better umpire because you don't eject when you have to eject. I'm not saying that we have to have a hair trigger, but when it's necessary, if for nothing else, we owe it to our other umpires

I agree with this entirely...I am a cop of 32 years experience....If you ignored abuse from the public that required an arrest, and didn't arrest because of wanting to be a nice guy, you made the job more dangerous for the next cop who had to deal with the "nice guy." I feel, while not exactly the same, it is pretty close....the next ump will have to finish your job because now, he thinks he can get away with it....If he needs ejecting, eject him...


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