Question for Jim Porter

[His High Holiness]

Jim;

A while ago, you gave a valuable physics lesson on why umpires should wear their mask loose. This was so that the mask would spin off of the head and dissapate the shock away from the neck. Of course, a few know it alls (who knew nothing) had to argue with an expert and insist that the mask should be warn tight.

From personal experience I know what happens when the mask does not spin. I once took a direct shot that did not involve any spinning action. Although the mask was loose, the hit was dead center so the neck took the full impact. I remember thinking at the time that Jim Porter knew exactly what he was talking about.

Anyway, last night a similar thing happened to my partner and it got me thinking about hockey masks which are becoming more popular. There is no way that a hockey mask could spin on your head. Doesn't that mean that a hockey mask would be inferior protection for certain kinds of hits? Or is there something about a kockey style mask that better absorbs the impact?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Peter

[greymule]

From what I understand, the All-Star kevlar super $400 hockey-style, titanium-cage mask that some MLB umps use is computer designed to deflect balls. Supposedly, no matter where a pitch hits, it cannot jolt you; there's no surface that it can catch "square." Don't know about that in practice, though.

I've had my mask spun many times and have never really felt a neck jolt, so I must be wearing my mask loose. I know that if a pitch hits your hand, it's far better to be holding that hand loose than tensed.

[PacNWump]

Triple H -
I know your thrad is addressed to Jim, but I think my experiences will help.
Four years ago, I wore a tight mask and took a shot that popped two disks in my neck. Doctor told me the reason was the tight mask causing the force to the head and told me not to go behind the plate if I were to continue umping. I was resigned to bases...until this year when I discussed the helmet with my Doc and he cleared me to again go behind the plate...with cautions. Found the helmet to be superior in comfort and visibility, persperation was no longer a problem. I remember hearing a loud bang as I took a direct shot a few days ago that actually bent the wire frame. The impact to my head was minimal, I felt no snapping of the head, I didn't have to take any time to clear my head, in fact if it wasn't for the loud bang, I wouldn't have realized it was a shot. Needless to say, I'm sold on the helmet and won't be returning to the harness.
Hope this helps...

[Tim C]

Think of the egineering involved in the Hockey Helmet to be much like a stealth airplane.

By keeping away from square corners and flat surfaces they have made the helmet a "deflective" protector rather than just a cover to keep from being hit.

It is the same engineering that goes into "hard-shell" chest protectors. Again, it is designed to deflect from ANY angle rather than simply block the contact.

Tee

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by His High Holiness
Jim;

A while ago, you gave a valuable physics lesson on why umpires should wear their mask loose. This was so that the mask would spin off of the head and dissapate the shock away from the neck. Of course, a few know it alls (who knew nothing) had to argue with an expert and insist that the mask should be warn tight.

From personal experience I know what happens when the mask does not spin. I once took a direct shot that did not involve any spinning action. Although the mask was loose, the hit was dead center so the neck took the full impact. I remember thinking at the time that Jim Porter knew exactly what he was talking about.

Anyway, last night a similar thing happened to my partner and it got me thinking about hockey masks which are becoming more popular. There is no way that a hockey mask could spin on your head. Doesn't that mean that a hockey mask would be inferior protection for certain kinds of hits? Or is there something about a kockey style mask that better absorbs the impact?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Peter

Peter,

I appreciate your support for my advice on how to wear a mask. It's something many umpires learn the hard way, unfortunately.

I took a shot this season in an amateur league game. My mask bounced off my face, swept to the side, and stayed there covering the side of my head. Sure, I felt a bit of a buzz. But still, I cannot imagine how I would've felt had my harness been tighter. That extra give is so important in absorbing the impact.

Your question has already been answered, but I do have some stuff to add. I would've been here sooner, but I was working a Legion tournament today with teams from New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut. Our annual Air Show was in practice runs all day, so we had constant fly-bys from formations of jets right over the field. Exciting stuff.


The hockey style mask offers at least one benefit in that the weight distribution falls across the entire head. That lifts the pressure from the back of the neck one experiences with ordinary masks. Most people do not have chronic neck problems. But those who do, the hockey-style mask offers them relief.

The design for the All-Star Headgear is alleged to be, "high impact resistant." As has been stated, the streamlined design offers little surface area for a full impact. Most shots are glancing blows.

But as you have wisely surmised, shots to the front of the hockey-style mask offers no shock absorbtion. The hockey-style mask doesn't bounce off the face like a traditional mask.

So, it's basically a toss up. With the hockey-style mask, what you lose in weight off the back of the neck, you gain in a wider area vulnerable to a neck-jolting hit. What you gain in protection to the back of the head, you lose in protection from direct shots.

I'm still using my West Vest mask, if that's any indication of my feelings on the matter.

[Rog]

Interesting!!!!!
Anyone else had similar experience s with the new mask?????

Just two days ago I took a foul shot to the face, the mask spun and hung off my ear - had to look funny as heck ;-)

One of the guys I regularly work with I feel keeps his too tight. He got knocked out cold a couple of weeks ago from a foul shot straight into the forehead!!!!! But, he won't loosen up the mask, or adjust his position by turning his head on a slight angle to deflect these shots. ;-(


QUOTE]Originally posted by PacNWump
Triple H -
I know your thrad is addressed to Jim, but I think my experiences will help.
Four years ago, I wore a tight mask and took a shot that popped two disks in my neck. Doctor told me the reason was the tight mask causing the force to the head and told me not to go behind the plate if I were to continue umping. I was resigned to bases...until this year when I discussed the helmet with my Doc and he cleared me to again go behind the plate...with cautions. Found the helmet to be superior in comfort and visibility, persperation was no longer a problem. I remember hearing a loud bang as I took a direct shot a few days ago that actually bent the wire frame. The impact to my head was minimal, I felt no snapping of the head, I didn't have to take any time to clear my head, in fact if it wasn't for the loud bang, I wouldn't have realized it was a shot. Needless to say, I'm sold on the helmet and won't be returning to the harness.
Hope this helps... [/QUOTE]

[spots101]

This may sound like a stupid question but are you able to wear a plate hat under those hockey style helmets like you can with a regular face mask? And if so are they (the hockey style helmets) able to be removed without the hat coming off as well? Thanks.

[Rog]

I don't think any umpire's bother with a hat under these style masks!?!?

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by spots101
This may sound like a stupid question but are you able to wear a plate hat under those hockey style helmets like you can with a regular face mask?

You might be able to wear a beanie. But that's even more embarassing than looking like RoboUmp.

[brandda]

Originally posted by PacNWump
Found the helmet to be superior in comfort and visibility, persperation was no longer a problem.

Really? I thought about getting one of those this year, but did not because I umpire in Houston where we have such extraordinary heat and humidity. I figured that full headgear would be hotter than just the mask.

I am curious about how the design makes it cooler and helps keep perspiration off of you especially if you cannot wear a hat to absorb it.

[PacNWump]

With the higher humidity in Houston, I'm not sure how it would affect the helmet. I used to have problems with the harness/hat combo where the hat would become so saturated, the persperation ran down my face everytime I replaced the mask after a play. The helmet is vented so some of the moisture is evaporated into the air and if there is any breeze at all, it feels like an air conditioner. The helmet comes with a removable velcro attached pad at the forehead, I bought an extra and if it becomes saturated, keep the spare with my towel and water bottle and between innings when I need a drink, a quick wipe of the interior pads and replacing the forehead pad will renew things...
I see (pun intended) why most helmet users say they rarely remove it, the visibility being way superior to the harness. Properly adjusted it will come off easily, I make it a rule to remove it with calls at the bases or home (must sell the call!) otherwise it stays on most of the time
I don't wear a hat, being folicley challenged, I keep what hair that's still there, left short.
Funny, most partners, players and coaches seemed impressed with the gear and ask how much I paid, how do I like it, etc...the only "roboump" comments coming from the old dogs on the porch...

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by PacNWump
Funny, most partners, players and coaches seemed impressed with the gear and ask how much I paid, how do I like it, etc...the only "roboump" comments coming from the old dogs on the porch...

Hmmmmmm. I'm not really an old dog. But I will say that if the hockey-style works for you, go for it. If it brings you the level of protection you feel you need, all the power to you. If you feel it increases your visual field and enhances your plate work, by golly put one on.

If it'll do all that for you, who cares if you look like RoboUmp?

[PacNWump]

Can't let it go without a parting shot huh, well apparently who cares would only be the old (at heart) dogs....but if the old way works best for you, vaya con dios mi amigo!

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by PacNWump
Can't let it go without a parting shot huh, well apparently who cares would only be the old (at heart) dogs....but if the old way works best for you, vaya con dios mi amigo!

What parting shot? I thought I gave you a ringing endorsement for the hockey-style mask. If it works for you, great! Who cares what anybody thinks? Gosh, if I was that sensitive about it, I would consider going back to the old harness.

[PacNWump]

My apologies, I read the message again and see now it wasn't a shot....thanks for the dialog.
Sensitive umpire...isn't that an oxymoron??