Batter kicks d3k
 

On a Dropped Third Strike, if a batter inadvertantely kicks a ball that bounced back in the area of HP, would you have interference? Would it matter if it kept the catcher from making the play and he reached first or not?

Does OBR or FED rule the same on this?

Thanks in advance for any reference.

might have to see it, but based upon what you're asking, could very well be a live ball, play on...could very well be interference. will look up rule ref tonight unless others post it here first

bisonpitcher,

As long as the umpire judges it unintentional, "That's nothing" - live ball, play the bounce.

FED 8.4.1 I.

JM

I agree. The umpire would have to rule it intentional to call interference.

-Josh

Thats what I thought. How about if the runner kicked it out of play inadvertantely??

No reward for the defense not making a play (ie catch a strike).

How does one judge intent? Do you ask the BR, "Did you intend to kick that ball? 'Cause if you did, you're out! - BR: "No sir, I didn't intend to kick the ball." Maybe he's honest, but again maybe not. Sounds silly, but how do you judge it? The batter has the right to the batters box. The pitcher and catcher have the plate. If the ball is on the ground in the batters box when the BR "kicks" it, then I would have nothing. But, with the ball over or on the plate and the BR kicks it - especially when the catcher is or attempting to make a play on the ball - then I have INT on the now BR. This is much in the same fashion of the BR falling or leaning over the plate following a swing as the catcher does or attempts or prepares to make a play on R1's advance to 2nd. BR is out! Also, just as the advancing runner is to avoid contact with a fielder making a play on the ball, the BR has to provide the same leeway when the ball is over the plate. Now, once the ball leaves the plate area then that is a different story.

We judge intent every waking moment. Everything you read here, you have to judge intent: is the author sincere, ironic, sarcastic, etc.? Every time you speak to someone, you have to judge his or her intent. When you drive you judge the intent of other drivers. This is not hard, and we do it all the time.

Besides, sometimes you just gotta umpire. Get used to it. If you have to ask the BR to know his intent, then you're not ready.

C'mon, mbyron. I was being really sarcastic with the quoted question. I know that we continue to make judgments on intent continuously throughout a game.

With the OP, though, my judgment of intent differs from those above in that to me it has to do with the result of the play, or in this case the result of preventing a play. The thought that someone would penalize the catcher for not catching the ball (even though he blocked it and it's rebounding forward to the plate), but let the batter kick a ball that was clearly over the plate instead of avoiding it. I'm sure you wouldn't ding a batter for not completely moving out of the way of a pitch that comes thought the batters box. So, if I have a catcher that has blocked a pitch forward to the plate and is attempting to play that ball, I will protect his right to field the ball. The BR has the responsibility to avoid a ball in fair territory.

No it isn't. Intent is not a factor in that situation.

So when the coach comes out to protest/argue your call, you will state that (in every case of this) the runner intentionally kicked the ball. Otherwise you are ruling contrary to the rule. This is not a good idea in my mind. As someone stated earlier, sometimes you have to umpire....

Reference please, for other than a batted ball.

NCAA - ball is dead and everyone returns 7-11-h AR 2

(sorry - i re-edited to get the notations in there instead for the long-winded verbage)

7.3.2 - contact with the ball while outside the batters box or with home plate...
2.21.1a - interferese with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play...

If the kick is preventing the catcher from making a play, then yes, I have an intentional kick.

How far would a player have to kick it to be out of play? That would seem to be a possibly hard kick to get it to a dead ball area. That would be even more of a case for intentionality.

Let's assume that it is a short foul ground and that it is obvious that the BR kicked the ball unintentionally out of play as he was leaving the box, if no INT then where would you place the runner?? 1 base since it was not batted as if the pitcher threw it out of play? Or since it touched the catcher would it fall under 1st throw by an infielder and move all runners 2 bases from TOP??

Why is the BR leaving the box? Ball 4? When a batter exits the box for other than advancing to 1st or an out, I normally see them step out on the same side they occupy the box on - not across home plate.

In your post, the BR put the extra force on the ball to make it go out of play. I don't have a base award for this. Where is this DB area in relation to home plate or the dugout? It couldn't be that close, could it? I can't visualize any DB area (other than the opening of a dugout) so close that an accidental or "unintentional" kick could get the ball there.

A kick is not intentional just because the result is inconvenient for the defense.

I will make the judgment and argue with the OC based on the batter preventing the catcher from making a play.

You can argue with the DC and tell him that you've got nothing but an inconvenience.

I like my chances better...

I assume you mean 7-3-2 and 2-21-1a (dashes for rules; dots for cases).

7-3-2 says "HIT the ball FAIR or FOUL ..." It's talking about hitting a pitch. Clearly not relevant to contacting an uncaught third strike (which is what the OP was about).

2-21-1a is more on point in that the play is interference. Some interference must be intentional to result in an out.

Notice, for example that 8-4-1a says "he INTENTIONALLY interferes with the catcher's attempt to field the ball after a third strike." Further 8.4.1I is nearly the same as the OP and says, "If, in the judgment of the umpire, B1 did not intentionally interfere, then the ball remains alive and the play stands."

One thing you are forgetting here - it is 2's job to catch the ball. This is a d3k scenario or rather, let's call it what the book calls it - third strike not caught meaning the defense did not do their job.

Now the offense is trying to do his job by running to 1st base but he contacts the ball that is there because the defensive player didn't do his job. By your own definition, you are awarding the side that failed to do their job.

I think that you should listen to the more learned people that are politely responding to you in that: "Sometimes you have to umpire!"

This happened in a D3 Regional game in Illinois a few years ago - dropped third strike, batter took off, UNintentionally kicked the ball into the (nearby) dugout. LOTS of discussion by the crew on this one. Final judgement was one base for everyone from the time of the pitch - same as a wild pitch going into the dugout.
That was followed by lots of discussion for a year or so by all the umpires anytime they got together.

JJ

if you've ever caught you can't be that black and white about who did their job or not...sometimes batters swing at pitches that will not be caught...the batter swung at a terrible pitch...one could argue that that batter didn't do his...you can't say the defense didn't do it's job just because F2 failed to glove the ball

Sometimes gloving the ball is difficult. It's still F2's job. Why do you think he's called the "catcher"?

I have asked this exact question of many a catcher who have let too many balls touch my person during the course of games. In no uncertain terms I let them know what Job-1 is: Keep the ball off the umpire.

PLAY: 1B unoccupied or 2 out. Strike 3 not caught. BR unintentionally kicks, touches or otherwise deflects the pitched ball that was not caught by the catcher. Catcher is unable to make a play.

RULING: If this occurs in the vicinity of home plate, the ball is alive and in play. However, if this occurs up the first base line (where the BR has had time to avoid the ball) interference should be called, the BR declared out, and runners return to base occupied at the TOP.

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