Verbalizing the Count?
 

Partner on Wednesday verbalizes the count, when necessary, as I've been accustomed to do, that is, "TWO...TWO", signalling with fingers, of course, with one hand for the balls and two for the strikes. We post-gamed it, agreeing on the clarity of using fewer words, skipping the "and" between the TWO's, and omitting the words BALL and STRIKE.
Partner on Thursday commented to me, "You're supposed to say "TWO BALLS...TWO STRIKES", not just the two numbers." He said, "That's what the book says."
I thanked him for his input, since I'm always willing to yield to "the book" in order to comply with Fed mechanics. But I can't find anything specifying one way or the other.
I know different officials have different habits and preferences, and I come down on the side of clarity with the fewest words necessary. But there a preferred Fed mechanic for verbalizing the count?

I don't think so.

IMO, this is one of those situations where you don't want to appear to be "different" -- as long as you're communicating the information, do what others in your area do.

I disagree (sorry).
IMHO do it CORRECTLY, even if its different from what everyone else is messing up.
And to my knowledge its always number and something eg: 2 balls 1 strike. and its "foul" not foul ball (i hate that, pet peeve)
In every mechanic book i own its always 2 balls 2 strikes.

peace.

2-2 is one time when I usually don't verbalize "ball" and "strike". But maybe I should. I have seen some batters who probably don't know if it is "2 Balls and 2 Strikes" or "2 Strikes and 2 Balls".

I try to verbalize the count only once during the at-bat and that is when the next pitch is a "money" pitch. Either 3 balls, x strikes, or x balls, 2 strikes. If the first two pitches of the at-bat are strikes, I will tell the batter he/she has two strikes and will signal the count but don't verbalize the count until the first ball.
I will signal the count to the BU(s) whenever a runner has advanced on their own, passed ball, steal, etc. or the BU gives me a lost count signal.

No, and even if there was I would tell you to do what is comfortable for you. If you don't get a playoff game, or if you get a bad rating based on the words you use when you give the count, please allow me to speak with that evaluator.

As with most of these type OP's do what your association wants you to.

MAIN POINT - EVERYONE knows the count.

Pete Booth

How about two closed fists and the shout of "The count is full"? :eek:

It really doen't matter to me what you use, unless its "twenty-two" when the count is two balls-two strikes, fist banged together to indicate a count of three balls and two strikes.

However, since you base your practice on "clarity", explain to me how 1 - 2 is more clear than One Ball - One Strike.

What is wrong with that? Isn't that what we all use?

No.

Peace

Durham:

Your humor is apparently lost on some people. Good luck Sunday.

Thanks! :)

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/sigh.gif

Peace

I just say "1-2" or whatever the count is. I usually give the count after the third, fifth, and seventh pitches unless the next pitch will lead to a walk or strikeout. (3-0 or 0-2 count) In that case, I just say "3 balls" or "2 strikes" and nothing else.

"foul" not foul ball (i hate that, pet peeve)

This really bothers you that much?

I honestly do not know why officials get all upset over things that hardly anyone notices.

Peace

~Sigh~
 

I'm with Jeff. The only people who notice this are other umpires in the crowd or evaluators who need to find "something" to make sure all umpires don't receive great ratings.

Or i would add, should know the count. Maybe just me, but saying the count if not that important. As long as I know and the battery know I'm fine.

We give the count, and two seconds later what do we here, "what's the count blue?"

Thansk
David

No, of course not
 

In my corner of the world we use one fist and shout "it's loaded", or "I'm loaded" if it's a beer league!

We need more evaluators that think like you T, and we know you are an evaluator.

Must have been a dull game to post-game this.

Throw that book away.

I've worked with a partner who, when the count was 2-2, he'd put up the two fingers on each hand and yell, "Pairs!"

I'm sitting there asking myself, "WTF? We playing poker here?"

I couldn't get him to stop this, so one time when he did this, from the bases I yelled, "I'm all in!"

:D

Yes, they should know.

But the batter, runners, and defense need to know too, not kust the battery. It affects potential actions.

Whatever you do, don't do what a guy I worked with last year did!

First inning, he is behind the plate. When he held up the count on his fingers, he made no verbal announcement. Okay, I can live with that. But for some reason, I kept having the wrong count- or, at least, a different count than he was showing. I'm scratching my head, trying to figure out how I'm missing pitches.

I decide to huddle up with him between innings, just to see if we're on the same page. As it turns out, we definitely were not!

As he explained it to me, he always shows the number of balls on the right hand, the number of strikes on the left hand. His explaination for why he did that: So the count would look the right way to the pitcher!

Don't be that guy...

I answer, "Still 2-2." Usually gets a giggle from F2.

I was that guy for the first two games I did behind the plate. My grandfather was in town for my second, and asked me after the game why I did it that way. My answer was the same as your partner. My grandfather straightened my mechanic fairly quickly.

Prefer Not to Verbalize
 

I give everyone the preferred FED finger mechanics.
I am not there to discuss the count.
I might let the catcher know aloud between pitches.
I might let the batter know aloud before he returns to bat.
I might say it every now and then to clarify things for the pitcher.
I always say it correctly, if it is important enough to mention aloud, "Two balls, two strikes."
I don't want to appear rude and impolite to those who may not be paying attention to the game.
I was raised that way.

I Can't Help It
 

SA,

What is a FED Finger?
:p

But what about "dead ball", instead of "time" ? :D

Three Fingers Up
 

Humor Alert :o

I prefer to signal three balls using a closed "okay" signal {pinky, ring and middle fingers up} over the FED "boy scouts" signal {ring, middle and index fingers up}. But I never really understood why the hand signal for three balls, two strikes was preferred over the hand signal for a full count. No one signals the count before the first pitch. Something to do with high handlebars or it means something ugly in a foreign country. I guess that confused or startled some of the participants.

:o End of Humor Alert

Being so alerted, we're waiting for the humor.:rolleyes:

Waiting.

Waiting.

Waiting.

End of waiting.:rolleyes:

Dear Mr. Umpire:

Please do not wait up for me. I'm running late tonight.

Signed,

Humor

:D
Does that count as the humor? :)

No. Humor should be somewhat funny.:rolleyes:

I'm surprised he did not say double duece....:D

I don't think the big blind was good enough. :D

As for proper use of words behind the plate I would ask this..."In your last plate job, how many pitches did you miss?" If you say zero, we all know you're lying. If you say three, then worry about what caused you to get them wrong. The coaches, players and fans don't give a rat's behind if you use the word "and" or not when giving the count. Concentrate on what matters.

I think the whole subject is a flop.

Rarely do I agree with a new poster, but you are absolutely right. What an asinine, anal thing to worry about.

What about these...

If the count is...

0-1 say O and 1
0-2 say O and 2
1-0 say 1 and O
2-0 say 2 and O
3-0 say 3 and O
1-1 say 1 and 1
1-2 say 1 and 2
2-2 say twenty-two
3-2 say Count is full or 3 and 2 or thirty-two

Mainly asking about saying twenty-two, I use it, never had a problem. I do not, however, say thirty-two, count is full is what I use.

I've heard those used. Usually by guys in need of a shave and wearing rumpled uniforms and a sweat-stained hat. They normaly show the count to the 12 year old pitcher, then to each dugout.

Total Conformity
 

FED finger mechanics don't include full count or hook-em horns.
Be the one who uses the right verbal comments in public.
A little training will teach 8 of 9 to follow directions.
1 always has to be different.

Talk about making little things out of nothing. I once worked with a guy that believed that every time he signaled the count, I was supposed to also signal the count in the field. We are in the second inning and he calls time out to come into the field and tell me this. (true story) My reply was your kidding right? He said "No, I take this stuff very seriously. I then told him that based upon what I have seen of his strike zone so far, I didn't want to embarass him by showing the correct count.

We didn't talk the rest of the game and fortuanely never worked together again either.???????????????????

Don't say "Twenty-two," and don't say "Count is full," and definitely don't say "Thirty-two."

They're seen as lower-level.

Publicly - numbers & fingers directed at F1. one-oh, two-two, three-two, etc.

Privately (to B and F2 only) same except 1-0 = one ball, 2-0 = two balls (same for strikes), 2-2 = twos and 3-2 = full. No fingers.

I've been to a bunch of NCAA clinics and no one has told me to change. However, it could be because they were too busy correcting everything else.

I still can't believe this thread (a) exists and (b) is now 4 pages long.

That's funny right there. I don't care who ya are.

This whole thread reminds me of why I don't ask some umpires what time it is. Instead of telling me the time, they tell me how to build a watch.

At a college clinic, the instructors taught to verbalize loudly with fingers on odd counts, except 0-1/1-0, and verbalize even counts to batter and catcher. I've used it ever since and it works greatly to keep you in the game and rarely loose the count.

Do you ever tighten the count? ;)

I verbalize and signal the count on every pitch from the second pitch on, except if the batter fouls off a few, and I rarely have anyone asking me what the count is due to my giving it so often.

Read, Pause, React
 

Have you ever been told you may be giving the count much too often?

Hardly at all. As I mentioned above, it's second nature to me and significantly cuts down the number of times I'm asked, "What's the count?"

I thought this thread was funny
 

Is there a scoreboard operator in the park? {HeHeHeHe}

Despite numerous attempts for conformity here after the OP, people who count twenty-two, or Full Count or 3 and 2 or thirty-two or 3 - 2 are not helping matters. Most of us conform by the time we get to two balls, two strikes. I will allow others to say 2-2 or 3 and 2. There is always going to be one in nine.

All nine are NO-brainers, but the those first five are especially O-brainers, and those last three will get mentioned in my post-game too. I do signal after contact or a swing and a miss. I try not to signal after a first ball or first strike call. I do not verbalize the count every single time, mostly w/ runners on base, or request. I never say never. I believe the umpire should not take on scoreboard or announcing duties. I believe it should remain quiet, like in golf, a moment for concentration. YMMV.

With all seriousness, what would you post-game with me on this? I would like to do it the way it is intended to be done.

The d is in the details
 

For example, 1 ball, 1 strike isn't eleven, and 1 ball, 2 strikes isn't twelve.
I believe this is important info to pass on during post-game discussion.
I have been told never to verbalize twenty or thirty or full count.

Your post raises the big question about the need for a verbal "Zero, Oh or No" ball count.
There is no need to verbalize the "Zero, Oh or No" counts.
For example, 0 ball, 1 strike is 1 strike, and 0 ball, 2 strikes is 2 strikes.
Verbalize 1 or 2 strikes, or 1, 2 or 3 balls, only adding "Oh or No" from time to time.

We all have been there, done that at one time or another. Asking for a reason why or for an explanation after using them when I am told not to really isn't a discussion I want to enter. There are some small things like this that are simple to accept by most people. Then again, I don't always do what I'm told either, sometimes I simply forget, or continue to ignore great advice and do the things I want to do.

I've been to several clinics over the years and it has always been taught that "full count" is slang and that an umpire should always say, and indicate "3-and-2" or "3 balls, two strikes", but never "full count".

Now, informally, if either the batter or catcher asks me "What's the count?", I may say "Full count." But I consider this a private, informal conversation.

To me, putting up two fists indicates that there is NO COUNT. Also, most of the fans don't understand that signal. It's naive to think that none of our signals are intended for the fans.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

I never verbalize the count. I use telepathy to plant the count in the minds of all present.

Whe the count is 2 balls and 2 strikes..... I say 2 "n" 2... I call that the "Chuck Woolery"!!!!! I loved Scrabble!

I give the count much less frequently at ballparks with a scoreboard that indicates balls & strikes and is operated by a competent individual. Some ballparks have a 12-yr-old girl operating the scoreboard which usually causes more confusion than assistance since mistakes are constant. In the latter case, I just umpire the game as if the scoreboard did not exist. In my opinion, if the scoreboard is not going to be operated properly, then I'd prefer they just turned the darn thing OFF.

When the scoreboard is managed properly, and when the count is indicated incorrectly (which occasionally happens), I not only remind the participants what the count really is (in case they are relying on the scoreboard), in addition, I usually signal in the direction of the scoreboard operator to get him to correct the mistake - which they are usually only too happy to do.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

He made it famous on "Love Connection." :p

Peace

I've asked board operators to stop keeping balls and strikes after telling them the correct count several times. Got tired of the coaches being confused and turning to correct them. They've discontinued in every instance thus far.

I had to do that.....
 

(order the scorekeeper to stop keeping balls and strikes) after they had it wrong for two straight innings on every batter. Very annoying. I hold it up after every other pitch and any reset such as a pick play/foul ball, etc.

I've done the same. I would say, "if you aren't going to keep the correct count, please don't show the balls and strikes." They are just as bad with the outs, unfortunately!

What I really hate is the announcing booth guy that thinks he's the second coming of Jack Buck and wants to do play-by-play during every at bat and play. I nip that sh*t in the bud with my bud nippers like Barney Fife and Fred Sanford put together!

Two closed fists are a NO Count. Try 2 balls on the left hand, and no strikes on the right hand. What do you show, 2 balls and 0 strikes. So, a full count should correctly be displayed as; 3 fingers on the left and 2 fingers on the right and announced as "3 balls, 2 strikes."

Or just "three and two."