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cc6 Wed Apr 01, 2009 05:28pm

Obvious mudball
 
How do you handle this one?

In plain view of everybody, pitcher reaches down and puts dirt from the mound on his hand, then rubs the ball.

Chris_Hickman Wed Apr 01, 2009 05:35pm

Take that pitcher to your next game and have him rub up your baseballs!!! HA HA. Seriously, what level of ball is this? It really isnt a big deal. If the balls were pearls, then they are going to be a little slick anyway.

cc6 Wed Apr 01, 2009 05:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Hickman (Post 593394)
Take that pitcher to your next game and have him rub up your baseballs!!! HA HA. Seriously, what level of ball is this? It really isnt a big deal. If the balls were pearls, then they are going to be a little slick anyway.

Adult rec.

Tim C Wed Apr 01, 2009 06:18pm

Unlike Chris:
 
Quote:

"In plain view of everybody, pitcher reaches down and puts dirt from the mound on his hand, then rubs the ball."
We teach for the PU to move quickly to the mound and ask for the ball and then say:

"Hey sorry we didn't get this open rubbed up enough . . . we'll take care of it from now on . . . if a ball comes out that is not rubbed up enough ask me for another . . . by the way, do not grab dirt and rub the ball down yourself . . .OK?"

Seems to work in my neck of the woods.

Regards,

ozzy6900 Wed Apr 01, 2009 06:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 593400)
We teach for the PU to move quickly to the mound and ask for the ball and then say:

"Hey sorry we didn't get this open rubbed up enough . . . we'll take care of it from now on . . . if a ball comes out that is not rubbed up enough ask me for another . . . by the way, do not grab dirt and rub the ball down yourself . . .OK?"

Seems to work in my neck of the woods.

Regards,

I follow a similar procedure. You really cannot let pitchers muck up balls, especially in adult leagues.

FTVMartin Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:31pm

Fed 6-2-1d Illegal acts include -- discoloring the ball with dirt.

penalty - The ball is dead The umpire may eject the pitcher.


I wouldn't eject. Just kill the play and get him a new ball.

cc6 Thu Apr 02, 2009 02:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 593400)
We teach for the PU to move quickly to the mound and ask for the ball and then say:

"Hey sorry we didn't get this open rubbed up enough . . . we'll take care of it from now on . . . if a ball comes out that is not rubbed up enough ask me for another . . . by the way, do not grab dirt and rub the ball down yourself . . .OK?"

Seems to work in my neck of the woods.

Regards,

Only issue with this is that the PU will look like the aggressor. Maybe this is desirable in a situation such as the one described.

cardinalfan Thu Apr 02, 2009 08:58am

Watching a D1 game last weekend. Same thing happened. PU called time and walked out and switched baseballs. Rolled the old one to the dugout. Told the pitcher why. Resumed position and the game started again. No problem.

Tim C Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:20am

~Sigh~
 
Quote:

"Only issue with this is that the PU will look like the aggressor."
You worry waaaay too much about the way "things look."

Control your game . . . oops, I forgot you work for Baseball Canada where game control is handled by coaches and players (i.e. they have no clue).

Regards,

cc6 Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 593587)
Control your game . . . oops, I forgot you work for Baseball Canada where game control is handled by coaches and players (i.e. they have no clue).Regards,

What causes you to say this? I think that coaches calling the shots for who gets to umpire their games and therefore umpires not controlling games is not something unique to Canada.

HokieUmp Thu Apr 02, 2009 01:05pm

well....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cc6 (Post 593602)
What causes you to say this? I think that coaches calling the shots for who gets to umpire their games and therefore umpires not controlling games is not something unique to Canada.

I can't speak for the whole country, but in my association, if a coach 'blackballed' an umpire, or tried to, he'd probably see that umpire at his next several games. Home OR Away.

Of course, that's only one association in one part of one state. So in theory, your statement that it's not unique to Canada is probably true. At the same time, it's another indication that the inmates run the asylum there.

MrUmpire Thu Apr 02, 2009 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc6 (Post 593602)
What causes you to say this? I think that coaches calling the shots for who gets to umpire their games and therefore umpires not controlling games is not something unique to Canada.

That is not something that happens on a national level in the US. It would be unique to contries outside of the US.

Unfortunately, it occurs in isolated cases in the US, but it is not common. Even in those cases, usually a coach may black list one or two umpires a season, but he may not dictate which of the others he gets.

Tim C Thu Apr 02, 2009 04:59pm

Ahem,
 
Quote:

" . . . not controlling games is not something unique to Canada. "
Does not happen anywhere is the US where I have worked (but that is only four Western States).

Canada from stories I have been told by other Canadian Umpires the amount of control your coaches have is far greater than anywhere else. And it is even more controlling the closer one gets to Quebec.

I feel sorry you actually.

Regards,

cc6 Thu Apr 02, 2009 06:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 593695)

Does not happen anywhere is the US where I have worked (but that is only four Western States).

Canada from stories I have been told by other Canadian Umpires the amount of control your coaches have is far greater than anywhere else. And it is even more controlling the closer one gets to Quebec.

I feel sorry you actually.

Regards,

You don't need to feel sorry for me. Different places bring different challenges. In Canada we don't have to worry about FED rules.

I had a lot of ejections last year (about 1 every 8 games, over the course of over 100 games). This made many people conclude my game management wasn't very good. Could you elaborate on your statement that the number of ejections has little to no bearing on an umpire's game management abilities?

DG Thu Apr 02, 2009 09:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc6 (Post 593392)
How do you handle this one?

In plain view of everybody, pitcher reaches down and puts dirt from the mound on his hand, then rubs the ball.

Time called. Go toward mound and exchange balls with the pitcher, tell him to not do that anymore, toss the ball to the home team dugout. If they are paying attention they will rub it down and I will get it back later.

Klokard Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:28pm

cc6. I'd like to hear why you have so many ejections? I am not being a bung hole, I'd just like to know. I have had about 1 ejection per season for about the last 15 years. Not that my game management is any better, I just want to keep everybody in the game when possible. I don't rabbit into the dugout but I will issue a warning when necessary. Had a sit today ; R2, one out. Line drive to F6 who whips it to F4 going to bag to double off R2. He missed the base with his right foot and had to drag his left foot to touch the base. I safed him. HC came out and said I missed it. I asked very calmly what he saw. He said that the throw beat him by at least a step. I asked HC which foot did your F4 touch the base with. He didn't know. I then asked how he could make that determination. He was dumbfounded. I merely said his fielder missed the bag with the lead foot and had to drag is trailing foot. By that time the runner had his hand in. With this explanation, he went away with a nasty look at his F2. I believe alot of game management is how you explain it. Call 'em early and call 'em consistently.

Kevin Finnerty Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 593739)
Time called. Go toward mound and exchange balls with the pitcher, tell him to not do that anymore, toss the ball to the home team dugout. If they are paying attention they will rub it down and I will get it back later.

This is right to the point and how it should be done. Slightly different wording, perhaps. Like Martin said, it's cause for ejection by rule in FED, so the pitcher has to know it's against the rules, so some overzealous by-the-book guy doesn't eject him for it down the road. So maybe a don't-do-that-it's-a-rule is more appropriate, but I love the whole procedure you described.

cc6 Fri Apr 03, 2009 09:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klokard (Post 593754)
cc6. I'd like to hear why you have so many ejections? I am not being a bung hole, I'd just like to know. I have had about 1 ejection per season for about the last 15 years. Not that my game management is any better, I just want to keep everybody in the game when possible. I don't rabbit into the dugout but I will issue a warning when necessary. Had a sit today ; R2, one out. Line drive to F6 who whips it to F4 going to bag to double off R2. He missed the base with his right foot and had to drag his left foot to touch the base. I safed him. HC came out and said I missed it. I asked very calmly what he saw. He said that the throw beat him by at least a step. I asked HC which foot did your F4 touch the base with. He didn't know. I then asked how he could make that determination. He was dumbfounded. I merely said his fielder missed the bag with the lead foot and had to drag is trailing foot. By that time the runner had his hand in. With this explanation, he went away with a nasty look at his F2. I believe alot of game management is how you explain it. Call 'em early and call 'em consistently.

A combination of handling situations for weak partners along with some uncooperative coaches. More assertiveness needed before a situation gets out of hand. People making comments from the dugouts and coaches box rather than speaking to me discretely. Nothing annoys me more than people wanting to have an argument from a distance.

SanDiegoSteve Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire (Post 593640)
That is not something that happens on a national level in the US. It would be unique to contries outside of the US.

Unfortunately, it occurs in isolated cases in the US, but it is not common. Even in those cases, usually a coach may black list one or two umpires a season, but he may not dictate which of the others he gets.

In San Diego, the coaches are given a "scratch list" at the beginning of the season, and they can scratch anyone they want from their home games. The assignor then makes sure those coaches see the umpires they scratched at many of their road games throughout the year. The coaches may not scratch an umpire mid-season. Once the list is submitted, that's it. The coaches cannot choose the umpires they do get, but they do have "request lists" for playoff games, and those requested umpires get the first shot at those games.


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