Texas Brouhaha
 

Yesterday's Headline
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...n.3356204.html

The game fees at the bottom of the page may grab your attention.
Same discussion seen earlier this year on another forum.
The issue doesn't really concern me.

how can paying an umpire by gate earnings dictate what they get paid? i get the "revenue" part...but talk about cutthroat. it makes no sense.

It makes sense in sports where there is both a ticket price and a crowd -- like football and basketball. The theory is that if you work a game in front of a bigger crowd, not only is it usually a bigger game, but requires more experience and skill (in most cases; there are always exceptions), and you should be paid more than one involving schools with nobody there. I've worked in front of big crowds and in front of nobody (in other sports), and I agree with this theory. The thing is, in baseball, even at what we think of as big time baseball schools in Texas, the crowds are often smaller than those at a freshman basketball game. Thus, the pay scale is flawed.

yeah, in MN, it could be a big time game, but it might be 42 degrees out and windy. biggest game of the year...but no crowd. How would the Tampa Bay Rays umpires feel about that pay scale last year? (I know, MLB, salary, blah, blah) Ump game fares based upon crowd size...I've never heard of anything as crazy as that.

The fact that the major league baseball clubs and the players themselves give virtually nothing back to the game at the lower levels is an abomination. Umpires and coaches alike are not compensated enough to allow them to continue doing it sometimes. Fields are in sub-standard condition, and equipment is often poor to non-existent.

I worked a game at a dilapidated high school field that hasn't seen an improvement in 15 years. Every inch of the place is a s---hole. It is home to a team that wins LA city championships.

On the left field wall are the retired numbers of Jon Garland and Garret Anderson. To date, those two ingrates have been awarded combined career salaries totaling $110 million. There are some instances where a ballplayer comes back and helps the sport, but the percentage is astoundingly low. Garland and Anderson essentially pull in between 100 and 1000 times what they actually earn, but they can't even let their pocket change spill onto the field where they played.

Baseball has squeezed too much out of us for too long. Bud Selig needed to go away before it got this out of whack. If there isn't an awakening, the outcome may be quite sad.

Then when a college field is remade with the money of a Major League ballplayer, we find out that he is a steroid-using cheater and scumbag.

It doesn't even have to be bad weather. There are few schools here that draw a significant number of fans.

Strangely enough, the only school I know that has paid admission also has one of the best turnouts.

Why don't you ask some of the D1 Basketball officials for some help.

At least the High School Fees for baseball umpires are close to the fees for other sports.

The D1 basketball officials make $1000 per game. There was an article in the paper about a D1 basketball official who worked 124 games in 07-08 and made $124,000, $200 per day expenses, and flight pay from home & back for every game, so he pockets the return fee home since he goes from one school to the next without going back home. Hell, he could if he wanted, have a friend drive him to another site that is close by and pocket the full fare. These are walk-up plane fares so he probably makes another $80,000 this way for a total $200,000 or more per year. I'm sure the D1 baseball umps would love to come as close to the basketball guys, as the High School Baseball umpires do to their counterparts in other sports. That $200 per game and not pocketing the return flight pay, and only $50 per day expenses, is no where close (and yes, I got that economics lesson the last time I mentioned this) to basketball.

Some of those D-1 basket ball guys make about 3k a game... a lot depends on the conference. But yes 3k is alot for a basketball game.

kinda of a skewed pay system... for a $150 gate the umpire gets $45. For a $1500 dollar gate the umpire doesn't get 10x the first $45, he gets less than 2x.
yeah that's totally "fair"... dang.

Not every cheater is a scumbag, and not every MLB star is a cheater.

But major league millionaires give less back to charity and society around them than almost any millionaires in America.

True, but AScrod is both.

Also true.

mmmm....fish and chips
 

An insult to a most delicious seafood.

D

Not an ARod fan and not defending him -

Now, ask yourself. How many of your team's players are among the 100 names on the list with ARod's that were not leaked to the media?

And how many more were bright enough to take a substance that wasn't even being tested for in MLB's we-don't-really-want-to-end-$teroid-use testing strategy?

The 100-plus (the famed 5%-to-7%) are not all the ones who are cheaters, they're the ones who are dumb enough and uncool enough to get nabbed in the cursory testing program.

Bud $elig is the principal in this. Fay Vincent sounded the alarm in the early '90s, and he was summarily booted. You can't have a commissioner who stands in the way of profiteering! $elig's is shameful custody of the greatest game in the world.

Beyond that: A-Rod, Bonds and Clemens, three men who are at or near the top of the career earnings list--A-Rod ($198 million and counting) and Bonds ($188 million) are Nos. 1 & 2--all defrauded their way to the top. And for being lying slime, Bonds and Clemens could actually go to prison!

I wonder where this information comes from. I'm not disagreeing with it, necessarily, I just don't know how accurate it is. Lots of people I know like to do their good deeds in the shadows, avoiding any pats on the back for doing what they felt was the right thing. Can we say that because we don't hear MLB players crowing about the charity they have helped, then that automatically proves they have done nothing ?

Funny how people are saying that MLB clubs don't help at the lower level, yet 3 of the 4 biggest sponsors of amature baseball in Ontario have some connection to the MLB and the Toronto Blue Jays.

Who cares? I'm not saying ARod is scum just because he did steroids, or got caught. I say it because he only admitted it after he was forced to, denied it for years, and then tried to blame it on anyone but himself and made excuses instead of manning up and taking responsibility for his actions. And, hey, maybe an apology to all the fans he let down, especially all the kids who looked up to him as a hero.

He is trying to tell us that he didn't know what the injections were for. I get sick of superstar athletes treating us like we're a bunch of stupid hick rubes. Of course as a pro athlete, making millions of dollars with his instrument of a body, is going to know exactly every single thing that goes into it. "I didn't know" is a bunch of BS.

Hrmmm I could fully see a highly paid athlete asking his trainer, "hey dude, whats in that shot" and the trainer saying "dude, you don't wanna know" and the athlete going along with it , because they just AREN'T THAT SMART! and they think they have a alibi for NOT knowing. just my 2 cents.

As a group or individually?

Source please.

If you made this statement 12 to 14 years ago, I would say that there would have been many major leaguers that would fit that description. Not now.

A) Individually.

B) If you read what I wrote, I used the word "almost," which is the truth.

C) You work hard and make the sacrifices to get inside the game and get your own good sources. (I am not saying that I have ever been inside the game as an umpire.)

The reason that you and I lock horns is because of the way you talk down to your lower-level umpire brothers just because you have some years on them or something. We're other umpires! Some of us love the game as much as humanly possible. So we don't need to be outclassed by you in some of that haughty stuff you write.

Well, you know what? When it comes to seeking and providing information on the game of baseball, I am at a higher level than you. I have had many more years of that than you and am decidedly more accomplished than you. So what do I do? Should I talk down to you from now on any time a subject ranges outside your area of mastery: umpiring?

Good for Toronto. I commend them.

If you saw the half an effort that is made in the immense baseball hotbed that is Southern California, you would see why I would be apt to make that statement. I also see too many dilapidated fields with discs adorning the outfield fences bearing the names and retired numbers of multimillionaire stars.

Hey Gary Mathews! Five years, fifty mil? Go buy some sod and a backstop and a friggin' line marker for your old high school!

And this "truth" is based on what evidence? Do you or do you not have a source for this comment presented as a fact, or is it your opinion?

You are welcome to your perception, as are we all.

I don't "lock horns" with you. I don't have that much emotion invested in you, sorry.

What I do is refuse to give anyone a free ride who spouts questionable material as "fact" when it is indeed most likely opinion. We have a constant turnover of newbies here who may not understand that just because some posters use language to appear knowedgeable, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are.

While I do point out instances where opinion is being expressed as fact, it only looks like I'm locking horns with you because you do it so often.

If searching for the truth appears haughty to you, so be it.

As prez 40 would say, "There you go, again."

Since you have no knowlegde of my interests, history or abilities, you have no information to make a factual statement in this regard. You do, however, have every right to express your personal opinion and it will carry the weight it has earned.

So, then, bottom line, with no hautiness, just a request for honest data, do you or do you not have factual data to support your oft repeated claims that baseball players give less charitably then any other professional athlete? If so, please share it so you audience can measure it against what they might know.

Thanks.

Texas Hurrah
 

The OP had to do with low wages paid to baseball umpires.

I have no problem with accepting any set wage. I have a problem when a higher wage is paid to members of other Texas umpire associations.

Again, I have no problem with accepting any set wage. I have a problem when working JV games by myself and I don't get compensated the same as those in other associations who earn a game and a half pay check.

I also have no problem with the UIL baseball people who decide the triple the number of games played during the week of Spring or Easter break. But shouldn't an umpire earn some type of school holiday rate?

Just throwing it out there on the bargaining table.

We got a raise this year. $10 on Varsity games, JV didn't change. We normally do a JV/V DH - that will pay $95/100, regardless of gate fees (and all the schools around here charge a gate fee). A Varsity DH would be $125.

TASO or UIL or whoever is giving a good screwin' to the umps on this deal. In order for you to get close to our pay scale you'd have to get $1,500 in gate fees. What's the difference in a 5A (or 6 or 8 - whatever you've got) district game and a 2A long time rivalry to decide the district champ? None, other than the number of students and the attendance. So why are you being paid less for that "small" game?

Pretty bogus, JMHO

I worked hard for my sources, and you are not entitled to them.

And be more precise in your comprehension. I stated that they give less than "ALMOST any millionaires in America." That was based on an investigation by one of my sources that revealed that of all the millionaires in the game ($1 million per year or more), gave less than one percent of their salary to charity.

And I am positive that I am more accomplished in the area of seeking and providing information on the game of baseball than you. I don't meet many people of my ilk, and you would certainly not be one of them. You can be Mr. Umpire, but mastery of the rest of the game would be where you can get off the train.

So how do you like being treated like you treat everyone else?

There are two reasons for the situation in Texas.

1. Higher quality umpires display a willingness tol accept low pay.

2. When higher quality umpires tire of accepting low pay, administrators display a willingness to accept mediocre low quality umpiring.


No one, even in Texas, has placed a gun to the head of umpires and forced them to work fo lower pay.

A convenient permit to fabricate "facts".

Then this "source" would be incorrect.

Still more unsubstantiated babble, like your earlier posts that dimissed the decades of research and discovery of forgotten and unknown sources by
Jim Evans.

You're projecting again. They only ones I might post to as I have you are others who make up "facts" and then duck for cover when exposed.

I enjoyed your post. I enjoy it when those who prattle admit that they are prattling.

Carry on in the knowledge you have exposed yourself as one who tries to pass off personal opinion and anecdotes as fact.

And you carry on in the game as merely an umpire. When you spend your first day as anything else, let us know.

Fire that source.

According to their biographers and their churches, Jeff Kent, Wally Joyner, Dale Murphy...to name just three...all donated betweej 5% and 10% of their annual million dollar plus salaries to their church.

As demonstrated above.:rolleyes:

Three out of the hundreds of millionaires who have spanned the Murphy to Kent generation. You are a funny man, Mr. Umpire. You are aware that there are those who give zero to charity. Maybe you're not.

1. I believe I stated...just to name three....you want more? I was able to find those in less than five minutes. How long did it take your source to find his incorrect information?

2. Humor has nothing to do with it, sorry. The point Mr. Research, which you conveniently ducked, was to indicate, again, you are claiming as fact statements which are not factual, and the point was made.

3. Your skill at redirecting the conversation and trying to ignore what you have publicly claimed as fact is remarkable, but it doesnt change the real facts: You have repeatedly posted "facts" which have been proven to be no more than opinion.

4. Your free ride pretending to be an expert in all things statistical is over.

You may guffaw to your heart's content and attempt to disract attention from what you have previously posted. Having exposed your posts for what they are, I will withdraw from this thread before the lock-down occurs.

Veritas vos liberabit

A scant minority of this generation's ballplayers are doing their part. And in the 15 years since Rod Beck started unloading his personal fortune and sacrificing most of his spare time helping stricken infants and children, and I became wildly curious about how much these drastically overpaid peers of his give to charity, you are the first person to defend the generosity of professional ballplayers.

An opinion based on years of observation of this game and its participants in and around one of the largest media markets on Earth:

"But major league millionaires give less back to charity and society around them than ALMOST ANY MILLIONAIRES IN AMERICA."

(My original contention)

I just wanted to re-post my original statement from which you, the precise Mr. Umpire somehow found to not be my opinion, but some precise statement of irrefutable fact.

The strike zone is scientifically and mathematically imprecise. How do handle that?

That's because you presented it as fact. Then you used an "unnamed source" as the basis for the statement.

There was no opinion about it--and you got called on it.

OOOOkay.

It's my opinion based on an investigative reporter friend's findings that he shared with me when he was inspired to investigate the subject at the time it was raised. I also gathered my own information from the community relations director of a major league club that I knew rather well. Based on that, it is my considered opinion that there are a scant few groups of millionaires in America whose members give less to charity and society around them than major league millionaires.

My opinion, presented as my opinion, and based on good information.

Once again, in all these years that I have been making that statement, Mr. Umpire is the first one to dispute it by defending the generosity of big league ballplayers. That says a lot.

agreed

disagreed (until the clarification in the last few posts).

Really?

Let's take a trip down memory lane:


That you can claim that you were stating opinion all this time puts you in the same weasel category as a JV first base coach.

What is says is that he's the first to call you on your bullsht.

Damn, y'all sound like a lawyer I once knew.;)

Let it go already. I know I don't have to read the thread but I thought someone MIGHT be adding something worth reading.