New Umpire School...O.U.T.S.
 

Hey, want some input about a new umpire school I just found on the internet...it's called O.U.T.S....Oceanside Umpire Training School...it's located in Cocoa, Florida...at the Cocoa Expo...nice facility...worked there a few times...anyhow...give you a quick synopsis...seems to have some unique ideas:

Two-week and one-week courses...room and board provided
Appears to be set up for guys looking to move up in high school and college baseball...it's not a school to go for a job in MiLB...
Instructors are half former pro umps and half college umps...
Owner is a ten-year veteran of MiLB...Bob Bainter...I saw him work once in the IL...pretty good umpire...never got the call, but we've all seen good guys not make it...but had a great reputation...
My favorite part is that students are going to umpire full games while being instructed/evaluated...you don't get that at a pro school...cool idea...

The website is www.outschool.biz...what do you guys think...? I'm thinking about attending...

call strikes...please, lord...call strikes :)

Sounds like Cocoa Expo has found a way to get free umpires.

In the past, new PBUC grads hung out and worked their games to pick up some bucks prior to rookie league start up.

Working "real games" at a camp is not all it's cracked up to be. Some games are really boring and you will get little chance to work on many skills.

The "camp games" used at pro schools allow students to experience many, many more situations and work on a more complete set of skills.

I've worked at Cocoa in the past...met a bunch of the PBUC guys...I know that PBUC has a deal with the Coastal Plain(s)? League this year to provide umpires...so probably won't be as many guys this year after their camp...

I attended umpire school and I liked the camp games...you can control the situation for the umpires...I agree, sometimes the games at Cocoa weren't the greatest...LOL...but actual, unscripted games would be a different idea...I'll give the school a ring tonight...let you know what I find out.

Call 'em strikes!

Thanks to whomever you are
 

Hey, thatballzlow! Thanks for the question on this forum. I didn't even know this existed. Interesting website. Someone e-mailed me and told me that our school was on this site, so I thought I'd sign up and respond!

Mr. Umpire, I am with you on the camp games idea. I remember when I went to Harry's school we had all those set up plays where they'd whisper in your ear "Hey, balk during this at-bat"...Trust me, that was the only time I've ever pitched. I didn't hit any of my fellow students, so I guess we all made it through ok. The idea of umpiring the actual games was just to give this a little bit of a twist. You can read all the manuals you want and hear all the "war" stories but it can never substitute for the real thing. And, believe me, I know some of the games aren't exactly going to be Florida State/Miami, but it's still a great chance to give some real feedback to umpires who want a chance to learn.

As for Cocoa getting free umpiring, I figured somebody would make a crack about that eventually. Jeff Biddle and the people at the Expo have been very good to me over the past 15 years, and when we came up with this idea, they were the first (and only) place I considered. If there is no real incentive for them to do this, than what would the point of having it there be, looking at it from their standpoint. That's why I'm putting my name on this post, because I won't hide behind any fake screennames. I stand by my staff and my ideas, and there will be always be doubters.

I know there has been a lot of animosity between former professional umpires and college umpires. Some ex-pros, even guys I know personally, think they're better than college umpires because they worked "in the game"...and I can't blame the college umpires who have run across these people over the years. Mr. Umpire, I can promise you this, no matter what people may think of me personally, I admire any umpire, from T-Ball to MLB, because anyone who has the guts to put the mask on is a friend of mine.

I appreciate the chance to post, and if you want to join, feel free, if you don't, feel just as free. We will succeed and hopefully bridge the gap in attitude that has happened in the past few years.

Thanks for reading,

Bob Bainter
Oceanside Umpire Training School
Oceanside Umpire Training School - Home

Thanks
 

Hey, I appreciate the info and the honesty. I just might sign up!

Ballzlow

Sounds like a good camp..but what about for guys that live way far from FL?

Bob
 

I know this is the first year for your camp,but have you thought about setting something like a scholarship up so that some associations can send an official or two for free or a reduced cost to the camp?

I'm stuck here in CA so unfortunately I can't attend, would love to however vacation and travel don't permit.

Far away from FL
 

I know the economy is bad, and trying to get across country on top of tuition might be difficult, but if someone wants to come, I would definitely check out Orlando Intl on AirTran Airways. They are offering up until the 15th flights around $89 bucks one-way, and for anyone flying in, of course, we will come get them at the airport, it's less than an hour away. I have some guys driving down from the NY area, and I know that when I went to Wendlestedt's, some guys carpooled, to save money...If you want anymore info, just give me a ring or drop me an e-mail, I'm sure I can figure out something.

And another thing, with the economy as bad as it is, I'm not opposed to a discount :D

Scholarships
 

I have seriously considered setting up scholarships...if associations have a few members who would like to come together then I would definitely do a package program with them. I can be totally honest with you, my largest expense is housing, food, and insurance, but I can work something out with anyone. All someone has to do is drop me a line or give me a ring.

Bob Bainter
Oceanside Umpire Training School - Home
309-363-9995

The economy wasn't the issue as Plan tickets we not that expensive...LOL I was wondering about possibilities out side of FL?

Oops...my mistake :D

There is a distinct possibility of taking this on the road to the west coast, but I am still in negotiation with a few places and have yet to reach an agreement...but hoping for a fall date...I will post on here when I have more info

Keep my email address if you get something on the West Coast
 

w underscore sohl at hotmail dot com

Is that some kind of code?

I hope it's code
 

I hope it's code for "future West Coast student"...:p

Nope
 

If you type your email out exactly as you would to email someone there are bots or somthing out there that collects those for spam purposes. I get enough without helping them. Just write it down as you say it, no spaces.

Cocoa Expo
 

I have umpired at Cocoa Expo before. It is a nice facility considering it was built by the Houston Colt 45's now the Houston Expos as its spring training facility when they became an expansion team in the National League.

I have a friend who is Mr. Baseball Umpire in Brevard County. If anybody knows anything about this school he will know. I will get back to this thread when I get more information.

MTD, Sr.

I'm sure this is a fine camp, however, for 1/2 of the price, one can attend one of Evans' Classic Clinics. There is a part of me that gets in my craw when you spend big $ for a camp, and end up working games that, more likely than not, are still paying for the umpires. Kind of like double dipping if you know what I mean.

Like I said, I'm sure this is a fine camp and is run by excellant people, I just had to throw out my .02.

Thanks for saying we're are a fine camp and excellent people, and, if I may, I'd like to respond about the double dipping thing...and trust me, you have every right to wonder how that's going to work.

I am assuming that you mean the money would have been paid to the umpires is now going into the school's pockets. That's a very valid question you might have, but, my school is not going to take money from the Expo that somebody else has earned by working. I don't think that's fair, and I am not going to do it. My school would have every right, from a business standpoint, to do this, but I am like you, and I don't like that, either. As a matter of fact we haven't even discussed the pay standpoint. I've always just assumed that would be one of the attractive factors for the Expo to host our school.

If we ever do that, I think it would be cool if I could pay the umpires back that money. That would be an incentive, don't you think?

PS...I know the Evans' Classics are 1/2 our price, and Jim is a tremendous individual, so you'll never hear me say anything bad about them. However, I have had interest expressed from three independent leagues in the last 24 hours about observing our school for potential candidates for their leagues in 2009. I can't divulge which leagues yet, but I will have more to come when I get the okay from them.

Whew...there is my two cents!

Bob Bainter
O.U.T.S.

Mr. Baseball Umpire
 

Hey, Mark! I have sent some letters to some associations in Florida, and would love to know who Mr. Baseball Umpire is, and that way I can get him as much information as he needs. Otherwise, this idea is so relatively new that about the only people who would have known about it are myself, my staff, and the Expo and the students that have already signed up. I would love to give anyone any information they require. If you have any questions, let me know, I'm available any time.

Bob Bainter
Oceanside Umpire Training School

Bob,

I appreciate your response and your honesty. I have been to camps before where he double dipping has occured and it did not make me happy. I attended one of Evans' Classics, so I have a little knowledge on that. I know that you and your staff are working to make this one of the premier camps out there and I'm sure you will succeed. I may even have to take a trip to Florida to check it out. You know us umpires, we always have to chirp about something, someone, especially during the off season. Best of luck and maybe I'll see you down the road in FL.

How 'bout those Gators?
Troy

South Texas Umpire Clinic
 

I'll pass an assessment...with guys like Coffland, Moser, and Wendel...you CANNOT go wrong with going to that school, either!

I have had the pleasure of working with A.J. Wendel in Spring Training, Casey Moser at the AAA All-Star Game, and I knew Coffland...good guys, good program...

12 years...wow...keep it up!

Bainter

New Information on OUTS
 

Hey, have some updated news on our school...

We've been in contact with three independent leagues over the past 72 hours and they have expressed interest in coming to our school to see what we're up to and perhaps...and I stress the word "perhaps"...take a look at our students for potential candidates. I can't divulge the names of these leagues yet because nothing is a "go" as of this post, but I'm confident they will be in attendance, and there is no better way of getting seen if this level of baseball is something you're interested than to have the supervisors of umpires for this league in attendance.

Also, all students who have signed up already and prospective students will have the opportunity to pre-order equipment and gear from Gerry Davis so any items they'd like to have will be ready for them when they arrive at the school. Not sure what the cut off date for pre-orders will be yet, but I will keep you up to date!

See you in February!

Bob Bainter
Oceanside Umpire Training School
Oceanside Umpire Training School - Home
309-363-9995

This is not meant as a reflection on you, but rather on the Indies.

I would be disappointed if they switched from recruiting five week pro school grads and PBUC candidates to accepting two week camp grads. It would seem a step backwards in their endeavor to upgrade their umpiring ranks.

I agree
 

I think you misunderstood me...I didn't say they were switching from five week pro school grads...they are just coming down to see what's new at our school, and one never knows what happens after that. I completely agree...I can't possibly teach what the five-week schools can in two weeks...Our school is simply an alternative for those who don't want a career in professional baseball, or can't make the time commitment from their families or their jobs...

PBUC is sending their candidates to the Coastal Plain League from now on...just saw that on the CPL website...interesting concept!


Bob

You are probably about 50% true. The benefit of working these games as a newbie umpire, you get to work out alot of kinks in your mechanics and will have a start at developing a style. The camp games are terrible imho because while different things are being thrown at you, an umpire has the tendency to overlook(miss) the basics. It's like trying to do open heart surgery when you are only qualified to do stitches.

I remember when I was at umpire school in the 80's, I was so worried about hustling and getting to the right spot that I missed a catcher's interference on the batter. Working a real game allows instructor's to see who has talent and who doesn't. An instructor won't put their stamp on an ump if they feel that they are ready to work Z ball.

Your are probably 25% accurate. :D

Over the course of a season, actual games are much better. However, over the course of a 13 day camp, one could work daily and never get to work on double play foot work, or calling an infield fly, or seeing type A obstruction, or many other situations.

Pro-schools have progressed since the 80's. Umpiring is not a static activity.

Wow...that's not very nice
 

Yes, pro-schools have progressed a lot since the 80's. Camp games, have not. They're still a bunch of people playing baseball, who wouldn't be umpiring if they could actually PLAY baseball, trying to execute commands from their instructors on how to screw up their fellow students while the guys actually umpiring these camp games are wondering "when is the other shoe going to drop?"

If you really think that in the course of 13 days, working daily, an umpire will not get to work on double play footwork, then I want to come work with you, because I'd love to have 51-54 outs of boring baseball with all strikeouts and ground balls to first. Infield flies??? Do those not happen as much as I remember? Type A obstruction? You're right about that one, as any other screwed up plays...

...Great umpiring is all about handling situations...but what about all those games you work in a year that have none? When you don't know something is about to happen, that's when you see who has what it takes and who doesn't.

Not arguing, just debating my point of view :D

Really? I expressed an opinion with which you apparently disagree, but what did I say that was not very nice? I was respectful and polite. Was it not nice to disagree with you?


I have no problem with that and I don't consider it as not being "nice."

Perhaps MiLB umpires get all of the possible variations of double plays frequently. I can tell you that I have gone a week or longer of seeing the same double play combination over and over in "real games."

Camp games better expose the potential PBUC candidates to the full spectrum of possibilities. The challenges of real games are what the Rookie Leagues are for.

Not arguing, just presenting my point of view, nicely.

That is so nice, ya know...just so darn nice!!!

I attended a clinic this past year where we worked games, three man mechnics. We would rotate and have up to 3 guys doing the plate for one game. Since I had been there before, I gave up my plate innings to a younger ump who was looking to break into college ball. While he was gearing up, I worked 1/2 an inning. There happened to be a DI assignor for 4 or 5 conferences up in the box observing. "My time to show what I have," I thought. First pitch, can of corn to center. Second pitch, line drive to SS. Third pitch, foul ball to back stop. Fourth pitch, ground out to F4. Yippee me, a four pitch inning. That's just the way it is sometimes. Another umpire, while working just 1/2 inning in the same game, had every rotation for a three man game. 1/2 inning took 35 min. Just the way it is sometimes. All I could say is, "great game management, huh." Just thought I would share.

UmpTTS, you are correct, and that is just the way things go, and I would love to have more sub 10 pitch innings out here on the west coast.

As for the debate about Bob's camp I will share this as someone that has been to Pro school, PBUC at Coco where Ria showered with us, and a teacher with a masters in education.

We have to realize that different people learn in different ways, in fact there are 7 different identified learning styles. Seems like Bob is just trying to add to the pool of available course offerings for people to learn the trade. Also the length of time suggests that they will be exposed to more than they would normally get at a weekend clinic.

There are advantages to camp games and advantages to games; you just have to decide which one helps you learn how to do this umpire thing better.

My apologies
 

Mr. Umpire, I apologize...and to all the other posters...I apologize...I just meant what wasn't nice was the comment about umpire school has progressed a lot since the 80's...just sounded like a shot to me...but hey, I'm not going to debate it anymore...

I guess that's what they call "flaming" :D But seriously...I love every opinion, and every umpire...I've got to stop posting though...I have too much to do between now and school to get everything set up. I wish I had time to sit around all day and post, but when you have a job, it's sort of difficult.

We are going to have a successful camp, in fact, this forum has been wonderful for business...if no one's talking bad, or good, about you, nobody's talking at all! So keep talking...PLEASE! hehehe

Have a great year to all, and we'll mix up our camp games and our real games and see which works better...

...and I can't wait to work on double play combinations...I'm going to have to come up with an Arthur Miller dance step sheet near second base so we can learn how to cha-cha-cha! ;)

Bob

four pitch inning
 

FOUR PITCH INNING! I LOVE THOSE! LOL...is there truly anything better? I remember, and this is off subject, when I was behind the plate for Bronson Arroyo's 9 inning perfect game, I called the first EIGHT pitches strikes...he threw eight straight sliders on the outside part of the plate, and the boys from Buffalo just stood there and looked at them...finally, he threw a ball, then the guy grounded to first...still, EIGHT straight called strikes??? Still, the strangest inning I ever worked.

Bob