New 2009 fed preseason guide quote????
 

Get the Call Right (Headline of first page of NFHS Baseball Guide, done by Referee Magazine {add your own opinion here})

"For years, umpires at all levels were told to make the calls that belonged to them without getting help. That philosophy is outdated and must be discarded. (my emphasis). The new umpires manual has included four paragraphs on the importance of getting the call right."

Comments?

(IMO, this is awful. The rest of the article backtracks on this saying, talking about what situations we should get help on, and which we should not get help on. The end of the article has plays that any crew with any sense would ask for help on before this new "philosophy" was made.

I am sorry, the old philosophy was better. Take care of your own business is the right attitude for working a baseball game. Go to your partner is what you should do if you are not sure about a call, but that should happen at most once every two or three seasons. The constant crew meetings to make calls is not a good idea. Make your call, stick with it, and if you are not sure, then ask for help. But it had better be very infrequent)

John:
 

POTM

After being a crew chief that called for the "get it right" huddle and totally screwing a very important call in a state playoff game I have concluded that I will only ask for help on the standard situation (i.e. checked/unchecked swing, etc.) and "get my own calls" the remainder of the time.

If time has passed me by . . . so be it!

Regards,

The thing is that in a two man system, there are many situations where if both umps are watching the same thing, that's a problem...granted there are some situations where both umps having nothing else to watch...I just think that FED is creating a situation where after every close call, coaches are going to expect a conference...which really has to be managed by the umps...good topic for a pregame conference.

Johnny08
 

Exactly.

I've got the new 2009-2010 FED umpire manual and if they are talking about 1.13 (which has four paragraphs) I don't read it the way the magazine article describes. It also is not shaded as a new or changed paragraph.

Any time your going to "get it right", you have to use some common sense in doing so. There are some situations when getting it right, more often than not, will result in an ejection simple because you missed it and in getting it right, cost a batter his at bat, or the potiential advancement of a runner.
I believe the NCAA rule changes discusses this very issue. In essence, use good judgement and common sense in getting it right.

My experience has taught me that two umpires standing next to each other often see things differently.
So who's version of "right" should qulify as "getting it right"?

"Getting it right" is P.C. b.s. that apparently makes some feel better about them selves and superior. The correct call (as opposed to the right call)tends to be irrevelant for those that subscribe to feeling good.

There is a time and place to confir with your partner. The correct time can not be predetermined by political correctness. It depends on each umpires philosophy and ability which is different for each person. By the way, don't forget that the "situation" is also a determining factor.

Do the job to the best of your ability and things tend to go fine. If there is a situation YOU decide to confir with your partner ...... just do it! If YOU decide not to confir with your partner .... do not do it!

Muddy Water
 

From NCCA softball umpire manual, but applicable to any umpire in this situation
http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/cham...PreviewState=0The bad call affects the participants of the game. Coaches actually prefer an umpire to stick with one call, good or bad. Others are more optimistic toward the future. Focus and good judgement are necessary when standing by a missed call is no healthier than overturning one.

I do not agree the "Get it Right" theory that has shrouded our sport over the last few years. I don't mind going for help in the "old school" ways and I will on occasion, entertain a request from a Manager or HC to talk to my partner. As I have shown in another forum, I will discuss a situation with my partner but not the entire crew.

I've been known to refer to umpire conferences as board meetings and with good reason. There are companies out there that hold a meeting for everything. They can't make a move with out conference calls or net-meetings to decide the smallest thing. Our sport is falling prey to the same thing that many companies are these days. Meetings for this and that instead of making a decision and moving along.

At one time, our sport was noted for a play followed by a call from the umpire. The call was the call and you could discuss it but you better watch out. Over time, our sport has taken over by a bunch of cry babies and pansies! Constantly whining and complaining over the simplest of calls. And what have we as officials done? Go right along with them, pandering to their every whim and whine. Well, I do not nor will I ever!

Now the FED wants to go the route of NCAA and they can have it! My assigner already knows that I will not agree with this candy-a$$ed nonsense! I am there to make the call and that is what I do. Don't like my call? TOUGH! Piss a little more and you're going to have to watch the replays on ESPN!

Sorry, but this subject just pisses me off!

I agree with you Ozz.. but tell me how do you really feel about this touchy feely crap:D

Ozzy
 

I agree 100%, that is why I brought up the subject in the post.

Make your call, have some guts, and live with the result.

Cons
 

Right on Oz!

It's not just baseball that suffers from what amounts to a lack of accountability. This is what's poisoning society and making lawyers rich.

In my opinion, we shouldn't need to be correct all the time, as long as we are fair every time. Rats demand that we are to be perfect on every call, every time. However, while we're doing that, we have to be baby sitters, police officers, judges, meteorologists, whipping posts, and the whole time we're expected to be nice and not be percieved as "arrogant" or "unapproachable".

I spend so much of my time and money, like most all of you do, to be at my best on the field. That means I really do care about being in the right place and making the right call every time. The reality is we are all human and the game is also played by humans. I don't make any call with self interest or bias. So what if it's wrong.

If I didn't see something I should have and there is a chance my partner(s) had a better view, I'll confer. Otherwise, I'm going to keep trying to get them all myself and not hang any of my partners out to dry.

D

I honestly feel the term "Getting it right" is really a stupid comment when it comes to any officiating. Do any of us really think people are not trying to "Get it right?" And as someone that works more than just baseball, we always try to "get it right." There is just a process that needs to be followed. If I am in a two man system and there is a play at second on a steal, I do not need help on a tag. Even a play at first base while I am in the A position, I do not need help to get that right. I am doing nothing else but watching that play.

What really irritates me is when we have secondary coverage on something that if we saw something, we would make a call. If we do not make a call, then we did not see anything to make that call. You cannot tell that to these dumbazz coaches.

The best example is when there is a hit ball that comes close to the batter immediately after the ball was hit. If the base umpire (properly taught) sees the ball hit the batter, then you are supposed to kill the play. If we do not see anything, then we have nothing to add but pure speculation. And we should not be making calls on pure speculation.

This is becoming a much bigger problem in baseball and really this is one of the reasons I have limited working baseball in the last few years.

Peace

I have decided that if the Managers and HC's are going to request me getting help on the routine, I will in turn ask him to get help on his game strategy. I used to ask each HC at the plate meeting if I in any way helped them make out their line-ups. After each assured me that I had not, I then informed them that since I didn't help them, I would not require their help umpiring.

The best way to handle those ridiculous requests is to ask the coach a similar or relevant question. I have asked on several times, "You want him to help me on a call that he is 50 feet away from?" It makes me laugh when they do not know what to say after such a question. ;)

Peace

;) I have often answered a request on a close play, "Let's see, you were 180' from the play and you think that you saw something that you want me to ask my partner, 50' away to rule on a call that I was 3' from?" Then I usually turn and walk away before they can answer me. :eek:

I had a coach last season who simply couldn't believe I wouldn't get help on a routine play at first from the A position (he thought there was a pulled foot - there most certainly was not). He was stunned to the point of not knowing what to say, so I turned and walked away from him.

I had one ask me to get help on a close play at the plate with my partner out in deep C with runners on the bases.

This must be a joke. Saying that at a home plate meeting is unthinkable.

Your the man OZZY

I believe there is a moderator on another Forum that would say "here we go with that "help" stuff again? Baseball is a game of judgment calls not help calls.
These coaches know exactly what they are doing when they try to make you look bad to the crowd by asking for help all the time and watching umpires get help all day, or by not getting help and then giving those looks of disbelief when the umpires do not. They are just playing you against one another knowing that this area is one of those areas that can make you look bad to the crowd either way, and make them look good, like they are doing their job at your expense. I believe getting help all the time on the field would put one in the "Smitty" column of umpiring for ones field work rather than the usual Smitty uniform part. Besides, I believe "help" was the name of a song anyway.

When I was younger (so much younger than today), I never needed anybody's help in any way. But now these days are gone, and I'm not so self assured. Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors ... so to speak.

Its ironic that in basketball and football, we hear the complaint from coaches/fans- "you cant call that from back there", when a thrown flag or whistle comes from the official farther away than a partner, but in baseball its just the opposite (in coaches minds)....

[QUOTE]Perhpas it's the "water" but I am with Ozzy about this getting the call Right business.

It's too bad the below philosophy is not adhered to anymore. Ah the good ole days

From the archives, Carl's infamous FAB V

Pete Booth

In fact, in baseball it's exactly the same thing: coaches working the officials to try to get a more favorable call.

Rarely do I encounter a truly great coach. And even among great coaches, I have never encountered a coach who's a better umpire than even me.

the thread you linked to seems to have nothing to do with this thread in this forum, plus it's 5 years old.

4.12 Crew Consultation
 

Dignity or "fairness" is fine, but getting the call right is better.
Those are some very respected officials (AB and Allan), but I happen to agree with RunsCreated.
Add D3K and balk calls to Pete's list of Carl's list, unless they fall into #2.

Is that a direct quote from the MLB manual? I don't know of any MLB umpires named AB, Allan, RunsCreated, Pete, or Carl. Are they executives? :D