Asking BU on a Check Swing
 

Hypothetical: FED rules. No one on, BU in A. Batter checks his swing on a 3 - 2 pitch. PU calls ball four and the ball goes to the backstop. Batter sprints out of the batter's box and the defense wants an appeal. Catcher picks up the ball and throws to first. At what point does the PU ask the BU, right away or at the conclusion of the play?

The reason I ask is because if the PU goes to the BU right away and he has a strike, he is answering the PU and making a call on a throw to 1B. If the PU waits, and the batter continues to sprint to 1B, he can be tagged out if the BU agrees the pitch was a ball and the batter/runner over runs 1B.

On this situation, appeal IMMEDIATELY. You do not need to wait for somebody to ask.

This will eliminate all the problems described in your OP.

The best umpire in our unit a couple of years back had this exact thing happen--and he discussed it with his partner in the pregame! (I was there because my son was in the game.)

Second inning; 3-2 count; checked swing; wild pitch; PU says "Ball four, DID HE GO?" He did it immediately, like Tuss said.

It gave the BR a chance to go more quickly to first to beat the throw on the K, which it was.

Same situation
 

Must the base ump wait for PU to ask or may BU independently, ring up the B/R from A?

Note on rule differences:

In FED rules, if the umpire's decision puts either team at a disadvantage, the umpire can rectify the problem.

In OBR, the play will stand if the call is reversed or not.

Great question!

My philosophy when PU is I WANT the BU to make the call right away. We brief this pre-game: with two strikes and a loose ball I will ALWAYS as the BU on a check swing situation. IMO this is the best solution for all three teams on the field & eliminates potential confusion

Given the right situation, I have no problem with the BU giving his input without delay. As an example from last weekend: R3 with one out. 0-2 pitch is a decent slider in the dirt with a check swing. Ball bounces off F2 right up the 1B line.

I now have several things going on around home plate, including a potential tangle/untangle between F2 & the batter-runner. My partner in C renders a clear and LOUD "No, he didn't go!". Batter stops, F2 gets to the ball, R3 holds and we go to the next pitch with no drama.

The ML mechanic (last I heard / read) is that BU is to come up with an immediate call without being asked only if he is going to rule a swing / strike. If he's going to support the "no call", then he waits to be asked.

I'm certainly NOT saying that SoCalBlue's partner used the "wrong" mechanic -- only pointing out that it's "different."

Whatever is used should be pre-gamed -- and recognize that it will be new to many participants, so expect some confusion / delay / missed mechanics the first several times it is (or should be) used.

Full count and pass ball.
Batter/Runner should be moving, shouldn't he?

He must absolutely wait to be asked. It's the same as any other call until you're asked, don't say a word. Having a BU make a call on a swing w/o being properly appealed to opens up a terrible bag of worms. Next thing you know the defense is asking your partner to make these calls without you knowing and then the PU loses control.

I have no problem appealing or even giving a call opposite of my partner when asked, but would never consider making the call w/o being asked.

Back to the O/P, the PU should come up quickly with the appeal. Even/especially with the ball being at the back stop.

But if the catcher comes back from the backstop and the defense hasn't already done something to loose their right to an appeal, they can still appeal, and potentially get that out.

P.S. FWIW I also don't believe in using an "I've got info" type signal. Good coaches can sniff theses out and it has the same effect of shoving a call up your partners a$$ when a coach comes out to argue and then saying, "We'll why don't you go ask you're partner I know he has something different because I saw him take off his cap..." or what ever your signal may be. Not a good situation to be in.

Bob,

Normally I would expect the call only when he is going to rule a strike.

Partner recognized the potential for problems and made what I thought was a great decision in this case.

Bob,

Assuming this situation is during a high school game, two man crews) wouldn't an immediate strike call (by BU, w/o appeal) on a left-handed batter be looking for problems?

I'm not Bob, but why? Any umpire who is unable or unwilling to make a check swing call from any location on any batter should stop umpiring. Simple mjusdgement - did the batter offer at the pitch?

Since there seems to some variance in opinion, here is what the MLBUM says:
8.7 "VOLUNTARY STRIKE"
In the situation where the third strike eludes the catcher on a half-swing and the batter-runner is entitled to run to first base, the appeal should be made to the base umpire instantly (without waiting for a request from the defense); but even if the appeal is not instant, the appropriate base umpire should immediately and voluntarily make a call of strike IF the base umpire is going to reverse the plate umpire's call. This will give the batter the immediate opportunity to run.

[Bolding, caps, and quotation marks copied from MLBUM.]

If BU is going to "call it later" then he's better off "calling it now."

Dave that's what the manual says but in all my years of watching PRO ball I have yet to see a BU ON HIS OWN make a call of strike on the play presented.

I know the Doug Eddings play in the ACLS years back was a little different but no other umpire "piped-up" during that fiasco.

It's like many things in life - meaning there is a manual and then there is actual practice.

Pete Booth

Unless you are very different than most people (even umpires) you wouldn't be looking at BU on a checked swing uncaught third strike. That's not where the action or the ball is. And if you are dependent on TV to show you a volunteer call by BU, you'll never see it.

Eddings? You mean with A. J. Piersynski getting to first? Eddings called a strike immediately, behind the plate. That's more than a little different. Why do you think the BU should have piped up?

I don't know how long this ruling has been in the book, but it's not very many years. I expect recent rulings to be more strictly followed than old ones, so I expect that BU usually does, in practice, make the call.

Bob,

I can see this being an issue in the two man system. The phrase "appropriate umpire" in the MLB rules would indicate the U3 would make the call on a check swing w/ a left handed batter. One of the many imperfections of the two man system.

I disagree. Any BU can see, and opine, on a check swing. If there's more than one BU, then the crew needs to "choose" who to ask (so it doesn't become a "vote."). If there's only one BU, then the choice is easy. :)

If BU in A would rule on a first pitch check swing by a LH batter, then he should rule on a potential dropped third strike by the same batter. And, if he's going to rule on it if asked, he should rule on it before he's asked to avoid putting either team at a disadvantage.

Isn't there a set of 3 or 4 man mechanics that has the same umpire take the check swing regardless of the handiness of the batter? I am thinking it is the 3rd base ump, but I am not sure.

Not that I'm aware of. With two umpires on the line, all go to the umpire that is on the "open side".

In 3-man, with one umpire on the line and the other in the middle some mechanics go to the "open side" whether that umpire is on the line or in the middle; some go to the umpire "on the line" whether that umpire is on the open side or not.

That's what I was trying to remember. Going to the umpire on the line.

Thanks Bob!

Check Swing
 

In the Pro Lg I am in, using 3 man crew, we go to the umpire on the line if one of us is inside. I have found you have a much better perspective from the line than at any time when inside

Since that is not the PBUC mechanic, may we assume that the pro league you're "in" is not affiliated with MiLB?

Yep
 

I am in the Northern Lg

The PBUC manual I purchased in 2006 (with a 2004 copyright) still had this mechanic. Has it changed?

It has been being used for at least 2 years that I know of

I was reading through the MLBUM (2007) last night and came across the "Voluntary Strike" provision on strike three. Umps are instructed on an appealable third strike to immediately signal the "yes he went" mechanic w/o even being asked by PU if PU has called "ball" so the B/R knows to run right away

I kind of like that provision/mechanic...even though it contradicts other aspects of the rule interps that state that the players/coaches are responsible for knowing certain rules/scenarios..for example an IFF inadvertently called by umpires in an incorrect situation or an IFF not called in a correct situation.

Are other associations adopting this Voluntary Strike mechanic in other rule sets?

If I call ball 4 on a checked swing in this sitch and I immediately go to my partner, "did he go?". Removes all doubt quickly. I have had batters stand there until my partner rules strike and then they take off...

I get no more worked up calling a swing from A with a LH batter than I do a right handed batter. Or in B or C or whatever. It's just another decision to make and that's what we're paid for.

~Sigh~
 

As I have noted on this (and other umpire sites):

Any umpire that intones that an umpire working "inside" cannot call a checked/unchecked swing either does not understand the rule or does not have enough guts to make the call.

Same goes for the times when, in the two umpire system, that an umpire is not in the "open" side of the hitter.

Amen! This should be the final word on this particular subject, again.