FED change -shaking off the sign
 

Just got my 2009 NFHS Baseball Case book. 6.1.2.D has changed:

"F1, while on the pitcher's plate in either the windup or set position, (a) adjusts his cap or (b) shakes off the signal with his glove, or (c) shakes off the signal with his head. RULING: In (a) through (c), these are legal actions if these movements of the arms and legs are not associated with the pitch."

My only caveat would be that there are some other arm and or leg movements not associated with the pitch that could be illegal feints.

A. Were there really FED umpires calling balks on this? (Apparently so). That's awful, guys.

B. Why are there FED rules? I mean, high school kids may need a shock collar now and then, but not a whole different set of baseball rules. How did this originate?

Probably a good clarification so that some of the guys won't be calling this type of action a balk.

I don't know of anyone who has called this a balk for a while, but it was in the books.

Thanks
DAvid

There are FED rules because it IS a different game. Their athletes are not all baseball players, and all their baseball players are not athletes. They are still growing, physically and emotionally. They do not handle failure and success in the same way older, more mature players do.

High School parents and administrations are worried about injury as well as litigation, yet still want students to have the opportunity to participate.

Fields, equipment, coaches, and trainers are not of the same caliber as higher levels of ball.

Some baseball rules need more clarification, refinement, and explanation at the FED level - for players, coaches, fans, AND umpires.

I'd love to have one set of rules for EVERY level of ball, but it will never happen, and should never happen.

JJ

Kyle,

At our State umpire camp, guys were dinged on their evaluation for not calling the first two, as well as the gorilla arm. It was stressed by the instructors that they expected it to be called in the camp, as well as in the coming season. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just sayin'......

David B., it's more of a reversal than a clarification. The same 2008 number in the casebook had (a) and (b) as a balk. I guess nobody told Umpduck's instructors of the reversal.

Our camp was in June. Was the change published before then ? Perhaps that's why we were instructed as we were. :confused:

I just got the casebook this week. I think it was just printed. When it was decided to change the wording I don't know. I just scanned it for the changed or added plays while I was, ugh, never mind.

It has always bugged me that PONY and other youth leagues don't base their rules on a variation of FED rules rather than a variation of OBR.

High school is the highest level of ball that most of these guys will ever play and they have to learn them for the first time when they get there. It's BS. Most of them never really learn them.

I have to disagree. If it is such a different game, then tell me why Colt and Palamino leagues are so successful, while using the same group of ball players from the local JV and Varsity squads. Why do travel and wood bat leagues for 16U through 18 level thrive using the same talent pool as the high schools use? There are many examples of OBR-based games around this area, and they feature the very same guys you see when you do high school ball.

I see no reason for 95% of FED rules at all. They manage to confuse people, for example the folks that wonder why in the world the umpire just killed the ball on that balk the batter knocked out the ballpark, as well as other screwy rules. The only rules the FEDs should concern themselves with are safety issues, but leave the playing rules intact. Have your little sissy FPSR and malicious contact rules, and anything affecting safety, but otherwise leave the game as it was meant to be played, and that is by the Official Baseball Rules. These rules are easily adaptable for safety by installing special rules, so I don't see the need for any further confusion. I've had many players question why a FED rule contradicted the rules they were used to playing by. I could only tell them that whoever made these rules was responsible for the confusion, and that they needed to learn and know both rule sets.

One set of rules for every level of baseball, with a few special rules for each level. That probably will never happen. But it should.

It has always bugged me that the FED and high schools insist on playing by a different set of rules than 95% of all youth baseball leagues in America. The arrogance of the FED is just astounding to me. What's wrong with just adapting safety rules into FED rules, and not forcing these players, all of whom grew up playing by OBR, to learn an entirely new set of rules just to make it through a few years of HS ball?

You're right, it's BS! You're also right, most of the kids never completely learn the FED rules (neither do most umpires, as evidenced by all the confusion discussed on this forum over the simplest of rules). That is why they shouldn't have to in the first place.

Oh, and then they have to forget all about FED rules if they advance past HS. Wow, it's like deprogramming a former cult member!

Defenders of the FED faithful, blast away!:)

"One set of rules for every level of baseball, with a "few" special rules for each level". I might add "and interpretations" after the word rules.

Amen, your the man, SDS

Now if you can just work on the DH in NCAA to make that as simple as OBR.

Good luck.

Well done, Steve. I would love to see this as well. Of course, we both know that Fed wants to write its own rules because they want to have it their own special way. And really, there is nothing stopping a state from adopting a modified form of OBR.

Great post's, My thoughts for years. They are so confusing and change every year. Keep some of the saftey rules as well as the DH, Courtesy Runner and slaughter rule and make the rest the same as OBR.
I think all these changes every year are justifying somebodys job!

This still will require further clarification. Remember that FED has uses "in the set position" in two different ways. At times it refers only to the position of the feet, and at times it includes when the hands come together. At some point the will have to tell us which they mean this time.

SDS, I think you about covered it. It was mentioned on here a while back about a illegal pitch/balk rule, (pitcher not stoping when in the set). It was felt because it was a rule it had to have a penalty regardless of runners on or not. Just another example of FED intervention gone wild. And no I don't call it either.

MRumpire, this caseplay has existed for years. The change was to make (a) and (b) legal. I don't think anybody will not call these things ( a and b) a balk after the pitcher comes set. What further clarification would you need that did not exist in years previous.

Yeah, I don't want anybody to get me wrong, because I did umpire HS ball for about 19 years, and that is where my bread and butter came from. I'm very grateful to have worked HS baseball here in the San Diego area, and got to see a lot of talent come through. I enforced the silly FED rules, but that doesn't mean I had to like them. I took that FED exam every year, and got 100% nearly every year, missing 2 questions twice and 1 question another year. But I was at my happiest working PONY or Colt or Legion or Palomino or adult ball (when it was good, that is) or anything with OBR rules. I just felt more comfortable with them.

The wordiing, "from the set position" has caused issues for years as well. Many construe that to mean after "coming set". If you have never run into one of those, feel blessed.

After the pitcher has come set, moving his hand from its position (glove or side) without possession of the ball -and not moving it to grasp the ball- would be a balk.

I believe most umpires and some coaches would concur.

[QUOTE]Steve first of all there are at least 200-230 errors contained in the OBR rule-book so to say that OBR rules are the "greatest' is a crock. Just look at all the discussions we have on OBR rules.

In addition in OBR you have the MLBUM the PBUC, Evans , JR etc. and in some instances these authorities disagree on certain rule interps.

So to say that OBR is "the real deal" IMO is simply not true.

Also, OBR rules were written for Professional athletes not AMATEURS.

Also, at least from my experience many youth leagues are now gearing more and more towards FED rules than OBR. Many have adopted the FPSR , Bat Restriction policy, no malicious contact rule etc. It's simply a matter of time before these leagues simply change to FED rules altogether because as you say many of these kids also play HS as well.

Also, you didn't even mention College which has another different set of rule interps altogether. Remember the discussion on OBS / Interference this past year where we all saw a clip of a play and had a variety of reasons for ruling the way we would and then the NCAA came up with their interp of the play.

As for your Balk reference yeah it sucks if someone should hit the ball out of the park when a balk is called but in reality how many times have you seen this happen. Also, at one time even in OBR a balk was an immediate dead ball. Look at what happens in an OBR game if there is "action" following a balk - confusion exists - FED cleaned it up.

Also, as far as the dead ball appeal - it makes sense. How many times in your career have to had to explain to the teams involved how to conduct a proper appeal. In FED no time wasted - the coach simply says "Blue I want to appeal number 23 missing third base" end of story no time delay.

Also, you didn't even mention IMO what's the REAL problem with the many leagues one services - HOUSE RULES. There are some leagues that you can both start with or end with 8 players / Special Pinch runner type rules etc.

In Summary, since many of the kids play travel ball it makes more sense to adopt FED rules than anything else as NO Amateur League that I know of plays by PURE OBR rules.

Pete Booth

[QUOTE]Kyle since you umpire LL the aforementioned is akin to telling a coach he cannot warm-up his F1 or calling a kid out (in the younger divisions) for sliding head first which he can do when he goes to JR.'s.

If you go onto a LL Umpires discussion Forum (ala eteamz) and say that you do not care if a coach warms up F1 one is chastized yet you are willing to call FED umpires awful for enforcing a case book rule interp.

If our respective associations want us to call it - guess what you call it if you want work


Pete Booth

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;544113]Kyle works Little League??????????? Since when?

I was under the impression that he works a lot of college ball.:confused:

OBR rules rule, errors and all because...

That's why we have these manuals. So, some authorities disagree on fine points. FED rules are equally ambiguous and at times contradictory.

Real enough for me growing up. Real enough for all the youth baseball I've ever worked outside of HS. FED rules are artificial and often do not resemble baseball at all.

Then why have nearly all amateur leagues adopted these rules since the beginning of time? I never played FED rules.

That's great. Adopt safety rules. I have no problem with that. Just leave the playing rules themselves alone.

I did not mention college for two reasons:

1) Many HS baseball players will not play college ball.

2) College ball was not part of the discussion.

Twice. Two too many times I saw a HR taken away because of a balk call.

And yes, we can keep dragging out that tired, old cliche of how OBR used to do it this way, but OBR changed the rule for the better in 1956, the year I was born. So, for my entire life the rule has been the way it is. The only confusion is with the players, not the umpires. I've never had problems ruling on a balk in OBR. FED didn't clean it up, they took it back to the dead ball era :rolleyes:.

The dead ball appeal is another example of laziness. Just like the automatic intentional walk. We coddle players, while at the same time, deny the opposing team the chance that a mistake will be made in their favor. And I don't explain to the teams how to make an appeal. Coaches and players need to learn how to properly make an appeal. They shouldn't rely on the umpires to bail them out.

House rules make OBR flexible and adaptable to the needs of a particular league. What's the problem with that? Many leagues need these special rules to make sure everyone participates. I think house rules are just fine, as long as they are made known to the umpires and teams involved.

I have umpired many leagues that play straight NL rules or straight AL rules (DH for pitcher). And I still don't see why 95% of all baseball leagues should change to a rule set used primarily only for high school. FED rules are written because there are so many incompetent officials working HS games, so they have been "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator.

What's good about that?

It ensures an adequate supply of qualified FED umpires?

MrUmpire, my apologies, based on ODJ's post I now see what you mean. ODJ, I'm confused. If the pitcher has come set he wouldn't have his his hand at his side. If your saying the pitcher is in the preliminary stage of pitching from the set position then he would have his hand at his side and FED now says that a glove motion or hat adjustment need not be balked. From what I've seen on MLB and attending minor league games, a lot of preliminary twitches, shoulder rolls, and sleeve clearing are definitely ignored. BTW anybody take note in ALCS game seven last night of one pitcher's nice big turn and look at 1B while coming set?