MLB Differences?
 

Watching the Phillies tonight I noticed one of the batters with his back foot not just on the back line of the box, but clearly OUT of the box, before the pitch was thrown.

Does MLB just figure this isn't a booger worth picking, and if so, why even have the lines?

They do the same thing with pitchers working out of the stretch not stopping. I don't ever - EVER - remember a MLB pitcher being called for running through a stop.

Are all of these little exceptions in some secret little MLB umpire's handbook, or are they just verbally dictated by supervisors, or what?

To me, this addresses the integrity of the game. Why have rules if they are not being enforced?

Oh, but make sure those base coaches have helmets...yeah, THAT'S a rule that needs to be enforced!

JJ

Can you tell it's the off season already and the long, long winter is setting in?
Sigh...thanks for letting me vent a little...

A former pro umpire once posted something to the effect of, "We don't care where the batter's feet are until he hits the ball." Yes, that would be picking boogers.

If a relief pitcher is not stopping with the bases empty nobody cares. I don't recall MLB umpires letting them do it with runners on.

Professional umpires don't have to be told what to pay attention to by their supervisors or a double secret umpire's manual. They just practice good, common sense umpiring.

I have seen plenty of balks for failing to stop. I saw two this year at Giant games in fact.

OK, so you saw a balk or two not called. Were they in a balk situation. Remember also, in OBR, what FEd considers a balk, OBR may not. I.E. non-stop with no runners on. If there is no advantage for or against a team, it won't be called, hence a balk situation. It has to be blantent enough for Grandma to see from the top deck to be called.

Actually, this one can be found right there in the rule book:

Rule 8.01(b) Comment: With no runners on base, the pitcher is not required to come to a complete stop when using the Set Position. If, however, in the umpire’s judgment, a pitcher delivers the ball in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off guard, this delivery shall be deemed a quick pitch, for which the penalty is a ball. See Rule 8.05(e) Comment.

This was one of the rule changes of a couple years back.

You will, of course, still see balks for pitchers not stopping in the set position with runners on base. I've never seen these ignored.

I have seen right handed pitchers not stop several times in the Major Leagues with a runner on first.

Everything else about their body is stopped and still, except that their hands just come and bounce before they pitch.

I know the base stealer's trying to get their lead can see the pitcher isn't stopping with their x-ray vision looking through his back.

Know what I'm saying.....? :confused:

I think this is the philosophy about not calling it. But who knows!

I, too, have seen many MLB pitchers run through stops with runners on base. Running through with no runners isn't a balk - not on any level - but that wasn't the thrust of my post.
Watch the rest of the playoffs and see how many righties run through with runners on any or all bases.

JJ

I thought any part of the foot, touching any part of the line is considered "in the box"

I was talking about the back foot being completely out of the box.

Also, the foot may be ON the line, but no part of it may be OUTSIDE of the line when the batter takes his position (MLB Rules 6.03). This part is loosely adhered to, and is not what I was concerned with.

JJ

That's true when the batter hits the ball.

When taking his stance, he's supposed to be entirely in the box (no part of the foot outside the box).

At time of the pitch you can see the back foot out of the box or for that matter anytime during an at bat? If you can I'm switching chanels. Watching a game on TV this is the last thing I want to see. Besides after the a batter or two the box is gone. I don't think I've ever called an out with the back foot out of the box.

Enjoy the game quit watching the umpires. It's doubtful you'll pick up anything that you can apply at whatever level of ball you work.

[QUOTE]
One thing to remember The GAME is for the Participants.

Concerning Balks. About 10 yrs ago or so there was a memorandum issued to the umpires I believe in Spring Training of that year to start calling Balks more in line with the "book definition"

As a result there were more balks called in 1/2 that year then in all of the previous year. The Players Union reacted and things went "back to normal"

If EVERYONE wants the game called a certian way then you are NOT jeopardizing the integrity of the game because it's the SAME for both teams.
A good example is the "neighborhood play" which has been accepted throughout the history of baseball.

Jeopardizing the integrity of the game means you call it ONE way for ONE Team and DIFFERENT for another.

Pete Booth

I saw it too--the reason why it was visible is that they showed a close-up of the feet in the box as they were describing how close the batter stood to the plate.

:D Now that's funny. You certainly appear to be more of a fan than an umpire. The reason I commented on this in the first place was because the tv folks showed a closeup of that batter's foot. Matt picked up on it, too. I guess he's less of a fan (like you) and more of an umpire (like me).
Keep watching - you may pick up something that you can apply to whatever level of ball YOU work.
Oh, FWIW, I've never called an out with the back foot out of the box, but I HAVE told batters to "get in the box" before the pitcher pitches. Picking boogers? Not when the opposing catcher calls it to my attention. I choose not to ignore that situation on the level of ball that I work.

The only time I watch an official work is if I'm going to support a friend working a State Tourney game etc. Watching a game on TV or in person I'm watching the GAME. I don't care who's working what playoff series etc. At the major league level game management is different, coverage is different, there's no FPSR, fly ball coverage is different. They're working with four man crews. If you want to learn umpiring attend clinics, join an association, get a mentor and do lots and lots of games.

There was no FPSR in the many OBR games I worked either, and I've certainly learned a lot over the years by watching MLB umpires. Just because the pros don't play by the sissy HS rules doesn't mean you shouldn't watch them at work.

I worked plenty of 3 man and some 4 man games as well, and the rotations and coverages were exactly the same as MLB. If I were to work 6 man, I'm sure we would be using MLB rotations and coverages. I worked over 3,000 games over 21 years, and still find things to learn from watching the umpires on TV or at the games. There are lots of things to study, most importantly how to carry yourself on the field. They are generally the best umpires in the business (with a few notable exceptions), so there is always something to be learned by emulating them.

That's to bad, if you had been watching the umpires during the playoffs, you would have seen Ted Barrett working the plate. There was a great shot of him demonstrating outstanding proper use of eyes. You could CLEARLY see him track the ball completly into the glove with his eyes without moving his head.

Wow learned something new here. Come to think of it it was the first thing I learned before I ever called a pitch in a game.

Did you watch the game last night? If you did you saw Kemp screaming at the plate guy after he took a called third. Did he get lauched. Of course not. Is this behaviour allowed in High School, college etc. I don't think so. What would a new guy learn watching that? Not much.

The fundamental are used at all levels, timing, dressing the part, knowledge of rules, proper angles etc. All you were alluding to above is a fundamental skill that ALL umpires should use. Best way to learn that is by attending clinics, join an association, get a mentor and do as many games as you can.

A lot of guys were screaming at the plate. The strike zone was, shall we say, unpredictable.

I thought he missed Kent's pitch...the MLB guys don't miss low very often...but IMO he missed though there...yep, I know, they're human too...my only point is that I thought he missed it and I don't remember an MLB guy missing low by that much. other thoughts?

Watching Tim McClelland is like looking in a mirror. He's the man.

That would be the infamous balk year of 1988. It was Bob Davidson's favorite year.

Buddy, really?

http://mlb.mlb.com/pressbox/images/umpires_07/2639.jpg

Tyler, now I really feel sorry for you. And your mirror.

I was at the game. Mike Winters had a tough game. BOTH dugouts were on him from the start.

.02
 

It just aint the same without the 'stache....:D

Im just jealous.............of a guy who could work the knee in the pros.....I couldnt work the knee in a LL game.....:p

Well, your right, all umpires shoud use and be taught something as simple as timing, which as we both hopefully know, is the proper use of eyes. Guess what, that isn't always the case. In fact most of what you site as fundamentals used at all levels isn't always taught, known or felt important enough to teach to a young impressionable umpire. Granted, I can only speak for my association, it's not taught here. Something as simple as chest to ball when in the middle isn't taught as well, and not just in my association, this I see in clinics I've attended and confirmed when talking with attendees. Mentioning Barretts use of eyes, in one specific camera shot as an example of something good, was just that something good one can learn from. There are good and bad examples every day from MLB Umpires. Then again, there are good and bad examples every day from us amature umpires as well. They're just on TV and a damn lot better than us. They also use different mechanics than most of us, 4 vs. 2 man mechanics. Again as we both should know, there is a difference in responsibilities and mechanics when in the field. One can see good and bad plate mechanics and hopefully learn from them. By watching the plate umpire you can hopefully pick up the good from the bad, and improve your game. Cleary your beyond that in your game.