Appeal
 

No outs. Batter hits triple and in doing so misses second base.
As the defense appeals, the pitcher throws the ball over the covering shortstop and into center field. Runner on third who hit the triple comes in to score.
Does the run count, even though this may be considered a play and an error on the defense? Or is this not considered a play and no err should be called while the center fielder throws back in to second?

The appeal counts. An err is throwing the ball out of play.

Where(how) did the ball go out of play? A dropped fly ball is an error.Ball still in play....

How can the appeal count? You get one try at the appeal....throw the ball away...you lose...

Run scores....no outs.....next

griff

Since the opportunity to do so presents itself so infrequently, I would like to take this opportunity to say that I fully concur with canadaump6's assertion that, as long as the "errant throw" over the F6's head into centerfield does not actually go out of play, AND the defense properly completes the appeal of the BR's miss of 2B, the BR would properly be called out on appeal and his apparent run negated.

JM

I think he means "error" as in the OBR line "if the defensive team errs" (7.10).

But I think canada's right. In 7.10 it says the intended meaning of "err" is throwing the ball out of play. It also says the appeal is not considered a play, so I think F8 could throw back to F6 for the appeal at 2B and an out.

Canada's post is 100% accurate. How the ball gets to second is irrelevant, as long as the ball is live and doesn't go out of play (or provided the defense doesn't make a play on R3).

Not sure I agree...I still go with the one shot theory at the appeal.Throw the ball over F6 head...missed opportunity at an appeal.How many tries do they get to get it right?

Out on a 1-8-6 appeal?

griff

Me too!
 

I agree with:

RichMSN
SethPDX
UmpJM
canadaump

I disagree with:

griff901c

As does Evans.

Regards,

Can I get that bolded part framed? :p

I stand corrected.


griff

Quoted as a defining moment at officiating.com;)

Also quoted as a defining moment at officiating.com.

Even the blind squirrel gets the occasional nut! :D

Griff is correct in NCAA rule interp. If a runner advances on a botched appeal play then there can no longer be an appeal. NCAA Rule 8-6-b (5b) pg. 98.

Yes..Yes..Yes..thats what I meant...NCAA...Thats it!:rolleyes::D

griff

It's interesting, actually.

The NCAA uses the word errs completely different from OBR/PBUC/Evans. "Errs" in that setting refers only to a ball thrown out of play. The NCAA clearly means something different.

I never consider NCAA to be the default rule set, though, even though I work NCAA games.

I find it to be an unusual rule, actually. I can appeal by stepping off and walking the ball to the base in NCAA. Why would the route the ball takes to the base be important?

Let's go one step further on the original post. If the runner on 3rd is heads up enough to return to second on the errant throw by the pitcher, has he now rightfully acquired second base? Assuming as brought forth in a previous post the ball is live.

As long as the ball never goes dead. Once the ball is dead, a player has no right to return to a base they missed, unless it's to retouch on a defense error (ball thrown out of play).

touching a prior base
 

Once a runner has touched a succeeding base, they lose the right to return to an untouched base. For example, in MacGuire's record home run, he missed first base and was called back to touch it before touching second. If he had touched second, the defence could have appealed after the ball was put back into play and the home run would have been negated on the failure to touch first.

This is not true in OBR. As long as the runner does not touch an advance base after the ball goes dead, he may correct his error.

This is true ONLY when the ball goes out of play. In your example, it was a dead ball on the HR. In the OP, the ball is live, and the runner MAY return to correct his baserunning error.

You are correct. As long as a succeeding base is not touched, you can return to touch it.

This i what I meant: BR hits long shot over F9's head. BR misses first, and touches second. On the way to third, F9 throws ball over F5, sailing into stands. BR has no right to return to first for a touch. He takes penalty as given, then defense can appeal the miss at first.

mbryon was correct. However, your example is wrong for OBR and NCAA. The runner can return unless he touches a next base after the ball goes dead on a overthrow. See PBUC 3.10 or J/R Chapter 9 B(3)

That is not what I said. But I am correct.

You are wrong. If a runner touches no advance base after the ball goes out of play, he can return to any preceding base to correct an error, dead ball notwithstanding. If he misses first and is in between third and home when the ball goes out of play, he can still legally rectify his error.

Or MLBUM 5.12.

Fixed that for ya. :cool: