Runner Hit by Ball

brandda · #1 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 04:19pm

Had a situation the other night in a Majors game with man on third, two outs and the batter hit a line shot down the third base line which hit the runner who had not yet moved off of the bag. I judged the ball fair and that it had not passed an infielder so the runner was out. The coach erupted saying that he was not out because he was still on base.

I cannot find anything in the rules that talks about a base only that if the runner is hit in fair territory before it passes an infielder, he is out. Any thoughts?

Jackie W. · #2 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 04:36pm

In FED, as long as the runner was still on the bag, he is not out. Not sure about the majors.

Jackie

brandda · #3 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 04:53pm

I should have been more specific. I did not mean MLB, but rather LL Majors.

Do you have a reference for that?

Rich Ives · #4 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 05:01pm

That's easy - the rule says if he is struck in fair territory. It does NOT say "unless on a base."

For backup, point out that the runner is NOT out if struck by a declared infield fly while on a base to show that there is an exception.

Jackie W. · #5 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 05:18pm

You're right. My bad. I must of been thinking of the infield fly rule. Thanks for the correction. Also, Brandda, don't sweat , I knew what you meant about "majors". You'd be way too good for the likes of me if that was the game you were umping.. We can always dream..

Jackie

Jackie W. · #6 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 06:06pm

Brandda,

I found the reference: FED casebook Rule 8.4.2. Situation I.(page 67) Thanks for making me run out to my car in a near blizzard to find my books! ha!ha!

Jackie

Marty Rogers · #7 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 06:56pm

In FED, as long as the runner was still on the bag, he is not out. Not sure about the majors.

WHY does FED make THIS change from real
baseball rules? How does it make the game
better/safer/faster? I think it just
confuses people regarding every other code,
since it is one of the many baseball myths
(except in FED, that is).

greymule · #8 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 08:23pm

Hold on, Marty. In Fed baseball, as well as MLB, the base is no sanctuary whatsoever except on the infield fly, though Fed and MLB may differ in what constitutes "past a fielder" or some other aspects of the exceptions. In fact, one of this year's Fed situations (#13) caused a great deal of confusion and made everybody wonder just what their rule was. There was a long thread on this a couple of months ago.

In both Fed and ASA softball, the base IS a sanctuary. You're NOT out (unless you intentionally interfere). Then whether the ball is dead or not depends on where the fielders are.

But wait awhile. If Fed gets rid of the accidental force play, maybe they'll institute a hit-by-fair-batted-ball-but-not-out-if-in-contact-with-a-base rule so that we'll have another exception to remember.

Roger Greene · #9 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 08:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jackie W.
In FED, as long as the runner was still on the bag, he is not out. Not sure about the majors.

Jackie

Bad information, Jackie.

The runner is out if hit by a fair batted ball, on base or not, unless the batted ball has been declared an infield fly. Then, and only then is he protected when he is on the base.

See Fed 8-4-2k and Exception.

8.4.2 Situation I, which is cited has the ruling that the batter is out even though he was on a base unless the ball has passed an infielder, just like when he is off the base.

This rule is the same, Fed or OBR.

Roger Greene

[Edited by Roger Greene on May 9th, 2002 at 08:52 PM]

brandda · #10 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 09:50pm

It sounds like the FED and LL rules are consistent as I did not read the rule as allowing the base to be a sanctuary either. Thanks all.

Marty Rogers · #11 (**permalink**) Thu May 09, 2002, 09:50pm

I didn't see the thread a few months ago.
Maybe it was before I registered.

I missed the correction to the "being safe
if hit by a batted ball while on the base."
Only in Infield Fly.

Sorry if I caused more confusion. I'm glad
FED is the same as OBR in this regard.

Thanks for the clarification.

greymule · #12 (**permalink**) Fri May 10, 2002, 05:57am

For anyone interested, the thread that dealt with the ambiguous and misleading "Situation 13" began on March 5. It is now on page 4 of the threads. You have to display "threads from last 100 days" to get to it.

Situation 13: With the shortstop playing behind second base and in a position to make a catch, the runner standing on second base is hit by a line drive. Ruling: The ball is dead and the runner on second base is declared out. If no infielder had been in a position to make a play, the ball would remain live, provided the runner did not intentionally allow himself to be hit by the batted ball. (5-1-1f1, 8-4-2k, 6-1-5)

Jackie W. · #13 (**permalink**) Fri May 10, 2002, 08:37am

You're right, Roger, as you can see earlier I corrected myself. It was bad info., as I was having a brain lapse.

Jackie

spots101 · #14 (**permalink**) Fri May 10, 2002, 08:21pm

Ok I'm confused. At a Gerry Davis clinic last year we discussed the batter-being-hit-by-the-ball situation and Scott Ehret said that in softball the base is a sanctuary but that is not the case in baseball. In reading this thread and the FED case play I am under the assumption that as long as a fielder is playing in front of the runner or a fielder has no play on the ball whatsoever, the ball is still alive and runner not out. So did brandda make the right call when he called R3 out after getting hit by a ball that, by being hit down the line, no one really had a chance to catch (assumption).
If you keep the ball alive that gives the third baseman a chance to throw out the runner at first (depending on which way the ball ricocheted off R3) or at least keep the runner at third. Am I making any sense here?

devilsadvocate · #15 (**permalink**) Fri May 10, 2002, 08:38pm

The runner is always out under OBR rules when touched by a batted ball. Always. Except for three exceptions:

1. If the ball goes through the legs of the fielder and touches the runner immediately back of the fielder, the ball is alive and the runner is not out. Unless the runner does something intentional or another fielder has a play on the ball.

2. If the ball goes immediately by the fielder (within his reach) and touches the runner immediately back of the fielder, the ball is alive and the runner is not out. Unless the runner does something intentional or another fielder has a play on the ball.

3. If the ball is deflected by the fielder and then touches the runner. Unless the runner does something intentional or another fielder has a play on the ball.

The basic principle is that the runner must always avoid a batted ball, but he will not be guilty of interference if he is touched by a batted ball that a fielder would have been expected to field. A ball that goes within a reach or between a fielder's legs should have been fielded.