The Point , The hammer, turning your head from the field
 

I have in the past done this as my signal : in the modified gerry davis I use I see the pitch stand turn open slightly and give the "old school" point as I verbally call the pitch. I have been since told that I should be using the hammer... then told it didnt matter but to not turn my head from the field for even a second. Just to preface that this is in rgaurds to a 2 and 3 umpire crew.
Yet when we go out to break up the conference they still want us to beat the catcher back to the plate which leaves our back to the field and let our partner handle it from there.
I ask what is the MAJOR difference between the first turning of the head (the field is actually still in decent view) where as when I turn and hustle back I have NO view of the field.
I know the first response is going to be that the ball hasnt been put back in play yet... but I just want to understand the method behind the madness so to speak.

(I have changed to just the straight up hammer similar to Ed hickox;))

I agree, people in different levels have told me different things, but I just don't think it's that big a deal.

Just what are you missing? Don't know.

Thanks
David

For the majority of my 21 years umpiring, I worked the scissors and pointed to the right for both left and right handed batters. I always turned my head with the point, and never missed a thing on the field. My peripheral vision never left the baseball, and my timing was such that if the catcher were to make a snap throw, I would be all over it. No problems, no worries.

That doesn't mean you should do a Dutch Rennert exaggerated, prolonged point to the side, where you are looking away from the field for a good 5 seconds like he used to do. Just a strike call and point, then back to facing front.

I agree with Steve. You can go the side as long as you have good timing.
You have all the time in the world to make that strike call, and you should use it to get that borderline pitch correct.

I am a hammer guy, so I get the bonus points on my evaluations for keeping my eyes on the field at all times. :D

BUT, I agree with above. As long as you are using good timing, you aren't missing anything by turning your head.

thanks for the input!!! I agree with what alot of you are saying just wondered why the people in charge are saying what they are saying. I have been complimented on my timing several times so Im pretty sure there is no issue there..... but thanks for all the input

It all depends on the game situation. Normally, I point and turn right for a RHB and left for a LHB. However, if R1 is stealing, I point right and keep my head on the play (likewise with R2 stealing). I tried the forward facing and the hammer and never liked either. I agree also with the "proper timing" school of thought.

I point also, but right only regardless of the batter. With runners on base I'll concentrate more on keeping my eyes on the field.

I've also tried the hammer but felt rushed. I guess it's because my tendency is to hammer as I was coming up from my stance while when pointing I'd be fully standing before the point. I guess I could make it work for me with practice but I'm happy with the point.

Pace and Timing are the biggest factors that have always kept me pointing. I had someone try to move me over to the "point, no look" method and it just never felt right (plus it just felt odd). On the occassion that I switch to a SB field during the HS season and MUST use the hammer I always get a feeling of being a little rushed, but that may be a personal quirk.

I'm really with everyone else here, that quick look to the side isn't going to leave you "missing" something, and if your game awareness is where it should be you've got the outside boundaries of your vision watching for a breaking runner somewhere and if that happens you got a whole new bag of tricks and a point mechanic is moot because you hopefully have an out happening somewhere else!

Not timing...
 

but proper use of the eyes.

Always remember 'Proper Use Of The Eyes' and you won't miss a thing. Mostly.

I'm a pointer, but I've never understood the need to look at my finger as I point, as I'm pretty sure I know where it is. I keep my eyes on the field, as that would be the logical thing to do. Now, if you have no runners on, fine, look wherever you wish to call your strikes. But with runners, you need as many eyes on the field as you can get.

If you've got a runner at third, and are looking to the right to call strike two, bad things could happen. They probably won't, and you can get away with it for many years, but I don't take that chance.

I'd equate it to having an indicator in the field. Not a big deal, but it could get in you trouble some day. And understand that some folks will think you look goofy too. (where is he looking?)

I hammer. Although I rise from my stance, I do not always move my feet.

I'm a pointer as well - always to the right, and I turn my head when I do it unless it is a dropped third strike. Then I am pointing while tracking the ball, and following with a safe sign to indicate the dropped ball (or out if the situation dictates).

And this may seem petty, maybe because I keep hearing in my head my mother nagging "never point at someone," but I always try to make sure my "point" is about halfway between the 1st base coach and the home dugout - so my mother would be happy that I'm not pointing directly at someone! :D

My observation of "most" pointers is that their timing is too fast. No, when they actually vocalize the call is timed well, but they usually come out of their stance too soon. It is one of the reasons I dislike the point.

If you move to the hammer and think your timing is "rushed", then you are probably one of those guys that comes out of your stance too soon. ;)

This works for me, but maybe not for you...but when I hammer my strike, I try to remind myself to stay down while hammering...so I don't come up too quick...I'm not perfect at it by any means...but it seems to help keep my timing consistent.

I know a guy who stays semi-hunched (from the GD stance) and hammers, and his timing is excellent.

I stand up to hammer, which I do more like a short right to the nose than an uppercut to the chin. But I pause a beat while I'm still down, and then stand up and pump just as I get stood up.

I was trained by a guy who said that you should never look to the right and point, which I was inclined to do because it's more visible to everyone involved in the game. But this guy was against it, so when it came time to call my first strike (and he was my base partner), I punched straight out. It felt cool, so it became my strike call. And then a punchout is the short right with a drop-step and a left hook.

A punchout should be a little fun, but quick and not too showy. (A kid just struck out, and he doesn't need his nose rubbed in s---.)

(A kid just struck out, and he doesn't need his nose rubbed in s---.)

Sometimes when the hitter starts walking back to the dugout on a called third (yes, those obvious ones)...my called 3rd is very tame in an effort to not show him up. Others may disagree...but I figure he knows he took a cock shot...why rub it in?

Well said.

One thing I've never been accused of is rushing my calls when working the plate. I'm down, track the ball, judge ball or strike and either announce 'ball' and pause before rising, or rise and verbalize 'strike' (or something like that) while pointing.

When I say I feel rushed it's because I'm hammering as I'm rising, not waiting until I'm upright.

I verbalize [or not], then rise, then signal [or not.]

The only problem I have ever had with the hammer, it looks like you are calling an out when you just have a strike. And in my opinion that caused a lot of the confusion when the umpire in the ALCS with the White Sox and Angels and the "Did the ball hit the ground...." conversation.

I have only used the "point" and never had a problem missing plays.

Peace

There is another element at play though. Fans. They like the show on the strike out.

I have never heard a player complain about the ump "showing me up" on a called strike three. I have heard many say "I sure deserved that!".

The pitcher deserves a good punch out as well, in appreciation of his fine efforts.

"The Pitcher deserves a good punch out"....
 

Especially on a third pitch to the batter that results in a called strike three.

I hate the way pitchers will go 0-2 on a batter and then fiddle fart around with the up and away, low and away, up, up and away in a beautiful balloon pitches to try and get a batter to swing and then wind up with a full count and they have to pitch to the guy (usually straight down the middle) and the batter gets a hit.

Or when the catcher sets up a foot and a half outside and receives the ball on his outer knee and the coach asks: "where was that pitch?", or the dugout, fans, etc. all say: "good pitch?" Give me a break!

I LOVE it when a pitcher and his coach have a set of stones and throw the smoke on the inner half under the hands and blow the MF'er away with the big #1 and I sound off with the loudest voice I have (which is pretty Effen loud): "Striiiiiiiiiiiiike Threeeeeeee!" while hammering with my right fist and then punching straight out with my left fist and pulling my right back at the same time.

Of course this only works with guys who can really pitch and have genuine heat. I love it. Unfortunately, I don't see it very much, even in college games.

You've got a real Effen pottymouth!:D

If you track the baseball with your eyes (not by moving your head) all the way to the glove whether on the plate or the bases and player has firm and secure possession of the ball you WILL HAVE PROPER TIMING. Jim Evans teaches proper use of eyes is the only way umpires will have timing. Any other timing is contrived.

I agree.

So, we're not supposed to count "One Mississippi" before we make our call?


Tim.

I use alleghaney.... mississippi is over used and I am a rebel .... :rolleyes: ;)

I use supercalifragilisticexpealidooucious... course i'm slow.

I hate to be picky but I believe you have one too many "o"s in your response. I believe it's spelled supercalifragilisticexpealidoucious. But then again, who is paying attention :rolleyes:

-Josh

That's why it seems sloow.

You too would be wrong, Buffalo Breath.

There are two accepted spellings:

1) Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

2) Supercalifragilisticexpealidocious

In neither case is there a "doucious" involved.

Maybe this is adding to the slowness.:rolleyes:

I'm surprised the spell checker didn't pick up on that.

Fooled again was I? I was :p

I usually just try to spell "C-A-T", it takes me long enough to remember to spell that.

-Josh

From the Lyrics of Mary Poppins as found on Walt Disney's site, the correct spelling is:

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Yes, it is very slow today!
</pre>

Who said, "He couldn't spell 'CAT' if you spotted him the 'C' and the 'A." ?

I believe Yogi said, 'he couldn't spell cat if you spotted him the K and the T".

And for the record, besides using superalifragileisticexpodallyferocious as my timing aid, I also use the point, hammer, pirouette, double sakow, with a twist.

Smitty. Everyone knows its chew your gum twice, spit your chaw, make your call.

That would be Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson referring to how smart Terry Bradshaw was before their match in Super Bowl X. Not sure if Super Bowl X is correct, but sometime in that era.

Swallow your chaw and lose your lunch?

I'm sorry, what was that? I was looking at my indiclicker.

Your timing is still too fast: Salchow, after figure skater Karl Emil Julius Ulrich Salchow.:)

Right...and the triple axel - after Axel Foley

This thread has spun out of control. You guys are skating on thin ice.

I think we are on the "rink" of disaster. Lutz move on to something else.

Excellent!

Now, what player's nickname was "The Hammer?"


dating myself badly here

Fred “The Hammer” Williamson :)

Damn, you guys are good.

And,
 

In the Super Bowl (actually it still was then called "AFL-NFL The World Championship Game") when "The Hammer" was knocked cold Fuzzy Thurston noted:

"The Hammer just got hammered."

Regards,

John "The Hammer" Milner of the New York Mets

Pete Booth

Careful, LMan, I believe that's a felony in your state. :D

Ha! Yer funny. :)

The Hammer
 

Do any of you guys use The Hammer on the golf course?

Worst infomercial ever made for the worst driver ever.

PPPPPPPOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW! (from the informercial, the creator of the Hammer says it about 20 times)

well said

JK, in response to your post...

I wood like to thank the moderator fore letting us iron out our issues, drive home our points, wedge in our snide remarks, swoop down like eagles, border on the lunatic fringe while chipping away at reality for a while. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say we're up the cleek without a paddle and really spoon feeding the birdies in this thread. Please help keep this thread open and on a par with all others and not let it become an albatross, or even a Maltese Falcon with Bogey. Please don't pull the pin on this grenade, just tend it. Let's all just keep puttering around here with two pairs of pants each, in case we get a hole in one.

What do you think, Ace Holleran? How about you, Tee? I think this thread was TaylorMade for these kinds of lies. I don't mean to be too rough, but the trap has been set by Archie Bunker, who was one of the Masters.

Wow. Talk about shooting your wad...

In response.............
 

lowers head, shaking side to side.........

:eek:

While dating yourself: If both hands are used, would that be considered double dating?;)

:p Never could get that straight....

They have drugs for that, man.

Greg "The Hammer" Valentine, a master of the figure-four leglock.

Don't forget MC Hammer and Hammerin' Hank Aaron for honorable mention. If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning. Now it's time to go get hammered and see who I can nail.:)

He taught Ric Flair everything he knows...

Steve, I think you've spent too much time at the 19th hole. Would you like a Mulligan for that post? ;)

Speaking of golf, I think the PU should have a caddy back there with him. He could hold all of our baseballs, plate brush and keep track of the indicator and lineup card for us. On close plays he can give us advice such as "The ball is coming from RF, I'd go 3rd BLX for this one." We could expand on this and have an extra official in front of dugout with one of those "Quiet Please" signs.