LLWS PU knocked over
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxzBtKO8pyg

Without bashing the LLWS or its umpires, what do you think of the play?

How about MLU Randy Marsh getting flattened yesterday by Phillies pitcher Jamie Moyer rounding first after the Pirates turned a sacrifice bunt into a "triple" (2 throwing errors, Moyer to third)?

He initially looked up and then looked at the player and then panicked, it appeared.

I was taught not to look at the ball the first day I became an umpire.

And honestly, it would help if he was in a little better shape too.

Peace

looking up momentarily is not his problem here, it's the back peddling that eventually makes him fall over

It seems the general idea is to follow the player, not the ball. We were all taught that.

What's your normal mechanic on a hit like this? I've seen three different "ideas" on this type of play (all assuming you're watching the catcher and not the ball):

1. Don't move until the catcher makes his move.
2. Move the same direction no matter what, leaving the catcher the ability to move straight back.
3. Move the opposite direction the ball was hit, thinking the catcher will move that way.

I've always gone with #1. I stand and see which way he decides to move. Once he's cleared what was my flank at TOP (I'm turning with him, so he'll never see my flank), I move to clear the area. Sometimes it's moving the same direction, but closer to fair territory, but others it's moving to the other side of the plate.

The argument for #2 that I've seen is that the catchers get used to the fact that you always move that direction.

#3 makes sense to a layman, but I can't see how a catcher (or the umpire on some) is going to always know which direction the ball was fouled off to.

What your mechanic here? Is this taught and in a book, or is it something you learn to do?

I was always taught to watch the catcher and move accordingly to get out of their way. Also I was taught to keep on your mask, because it is likely the catcher is going to throw his mask somewhere and you do not want to get hit directly in the face. Now having said that I cannot fault this umpire totally, but I think the fact he looked up he lost his perspective and fell. And I also think that he is not in the best shape which made the fall worse.

Now I have read some of these techniques in some books about umpiring, but I cannot tell you right now exactly where. I think in some books from NASO.

Peace

That I've never heard. It makes sense, but I don't know if I can train myself to do that.

It looked like F2 shoved the umpire out of the way. I would have dumped his punk ***.

Can't be done.

Excellent habit to get in to. My mask in on until the catcher discards his.

My mask is off while I'm opening up the gate to get out of F2's way.

Yep, definitely want to get in the habit of reading the catcher on this one and not the ball...the catcher will find the ball and he'll take you to where you need to be.

Sizzler
 

Me thinketh he needeth to mixeth in a salad once in awhile.....

I was surprised he stayed down that long. Heck of an athletic play by F2

Did you see his head rebound off of the ground?

Dash, I noticed the possible push too but I'd have a hard time ejecting the kid for that.

Just open the gate. Make your pivot foot opposite of the way the ball went, and if you don't know which way that is, just plant your right foot and move your left back.

Studies have shown that a right handed person is much more likely to turn around to his left (and all catcher's are righties). So, if you don't know where the ball went, he probably doesn't know either. So he's going to turn around to the left.

If you know the ball went the other way, just open it the other way.

Not hard.

Read the catchers shoulders, and open the gate in the same direction. If the catcher can't find the ball, place your mask over the top of your head in case your hat finds it. Never, ever look up at the ball, but if you're near the screen, listen for the ball hitting it. KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE CATCHER.

Plus, if a 12 year old knocks you on your A@@ on national TV, consider a new hobby because your umpire friends will never, ever let you hear the end of it.

Sorry to even comment but the play is simply too funny! Have to add it to the list of what "not" to do as PU. ;)

Thanks
David

except the one in this video...:D

You beat me to it.

I have never seen anything quite as buffoonish as that. Unbelievable!

And why don't people roll when they fall back like that? Your head naturally curls up and you roll over one way or the other and nothing gets hurt.

Make sure those Snickers bar wrappers hit the can next time...
Those things are awfully slick

Good call. :)

Hopefully you're joking... If a player has to shove you out of the way to make a play, your a$$ is not in the right position and you deserve to get shoved. Get the heck out of the way!

I read the catcher and move accordingly. I always tell the catchers " If I get in your way, knock my *** down!" Havn't been knocked down! yet!

I think the PU's pride hurt more than any injury suffered during his backstroke on the ground.

How do Little League supervisors justify putting a guy on TV that is so fat and untrained? It's an embarrassment and reflects poorly on all offials.

I case you haven't looked around the country at baseball umpires, there are a great many fat, overweight, heavy umpires out there that are damn fine officials. The guy made a mistake, but that doesn't mean that he is untrained. He called a pretty decent game, and other than his pratfall (which was pretty damn funny), he did a good job of umpiring.

The are many big umpires out there, like Ozzy, BigUmp56 and myself that can out-umpire many a younger, skinnier umpire. I'm getting really sick of listening to fat people getting ragged on all the time. John McSherry was a damn good umpire despite his heavy girth. He had a great MLB career and was responsible for training many umpires in pro school when he was the chief instructor.

There a thousands of other great examples of big guys that can umpire some ball, and that's what really counts...can ya umpire or can't ya? Size is way overrated. There are a lot of skinny guys out there umpiring that still couldn't carry my mask out to me.

Agreed
 

I too am over my playing weight, but I still have the quickness to get out of the way of the catcher.
Bad mechanics was the downfall here...

I am going in front of the camera this week-end, and I hope I don't make a mistake that will come back to haunt me...sometimes we all mistakes, and it just so happens one of our bretheren got caught on tape

That may be true Steve... but simply by taking a look around the ranks these days, PBUC seems to disagree.

It certainly can't help your umpiring...

Being thin doesn't make an umpire quick and being heavy doesn't make an umpire poor at his craft. I have seen some unathletic thin umpires, and I've seen a couple of hefty guys who can cover some ground and are always at the right angle.

I prefer to be at my playing weight (200), and I'm pretty close (208). I can still run well at 50-plus, and I just delight in being able to still be a running umpire.

But I have no problem at all with working with a heavy, immobile partner that gets his calls right and can be relied upon to know his mechanics. I just prefer to run myself because I am able. It's a nice feeling to get to second or third ahead of any runner. But if I was not able, I would compensate, because I would still need to umpire.

Who the hell was talking about PBUC? I was talking about being overweight having nothing to do with your ability to umpire well, and the fact that there are really good umpires who are fat. Of course PBUC wants fit officials, since it's for pro ball. The trend has shifted that way in the pro ranks. But seeing as how over 60% of the general population is either overweight or obese according to statistics, the odds are that there are as many fat guys umpiring as skinny guys.

Being overweight doesn't necessarily hurt your umpiring either, as long as you can still get around on the field like you're supposed to.

For us, size DOESN'T matter..............
 

Fellas:

Having worked with, and been trained by umpires of all shapes & sizes, I don't see size being an issue here.

While I'm at one end of the spectrum (5'07/155), I'm also pushing 40..... Many of you are older, have "wear & tear" issues with your body.

None of that matters. I'll take any partner who knows where & when to be somewhere over one who has a "look," but no clue :eek:

AR

Yup, I am big - 5'11" @260 lbs with a heart condition, and I still get up the 3rd base line when I'm on the plate or back to cover the plate when I go out from the "A" position! It's the training and the experience and not the size that makes you a good umpire. I've seen skinny young bucks loose their footing. I've seen skinny umpires get into trouble with F2's and F3's - size has no bearing here. On the other side of the coin, I've seen overweight umpires that look like crap on the field and others that look as sharp as a Marine (and likewise for the skinny ones).

Anyway, the PU in this video was dead wrong as many of you have stated in watching the ball. Now whether he was trained properly or not is something we do not know. We only know that he provided us with a great "what-not-to-do" training video!

I just want to know where the LL umps are getting thier strike zones. I watched in one of the games, the pitch come in with the catcher catching it while the glove was on the ground and further outside than the batters box line. After he caught it, He moved his glove, not pulled it a little or framed it, moved it, up into the strike zone, and the PU called it a strike.

Now i know that LL catchers don't sit up nice and tight on the batters, and the pitches are affected by gravity more than anything else, but come on, that just looks bad.

BTW, I did like the nice grass stain that the PU had on him after his stunt fall.

Where do you get yours? WalMart?

You expect maybe he had one of those Oxy Clean sticks to take care of the grass stain right then and there? Must've forgot that when he got the K-Zone at Wal Mart.

You don't get to a Regional without some form of training and references. you get any of those? Or anything like it?
:rolleyes:

These are 11/12 year olds. At that age I am not about to make them catch the pitch the "right way;" I am looking for strikes. Neither is any other umpire good enough to be picked for a Regional.

Sounds a little like the parent I had wondering why I was calling strikes on pitches caught near the ground...in a 9/10 game. :rolleyes:

At pro school they teach to wait and see which way the catcher moves then go the other way.

No way. The catcher has every right to get to the ball. If that "ignorant donkey' (dumba**) of an excuse for a plate umpire doesn't know where to go, he deserved to be knocked on his ample butt. Besides, it looked to me that the catcher made slight contact, and the PU has poor balance.

Bob

Frankly, I'd rather have a clue AND have "the look".

To me, its better than solely having a clue.

But given a choice between the two........ ;)

Not quite accurate. They teach to see which way F2 turns, then "open the gate" with that same foot. That is, F2 turns to his left, I lift my left foot and swing it back.

Then move with the catcher (not the other way), staying back 15 feet or so in case he changes directions, and get in position to see the ball touch the fence, backstop, net, etc.

ummm, Steve, I don't think JMS is the example you would want to pick here....

Despite his appearance, John McSherry was cat like quick and nimbled around the field like a natural like Steve Palermo. The last thing that anyone whoever met John said was, "Now there is a lazy, fat slob of an umpire." Another big man who was an exemplary umpire was Lee Weyer. Those two had instincts and anticipated the play better than most. Aren't we taught to not judge a book by its cover?

Why, because he had a heart attack? So did my dad, who was a thin person without an ounce of fat on him, and died 34 years ago at the old age of 57. McSherry just happened to be on a baseball field when his heart gave out. Everybody has to die sometime.

John McSherry was a very good umpire, and a fine example. Just meeting him years ago and shaking his hand was a thrill and honor for me.

I look at it like this ... if you can get where you need to and do the job you are supposed to do and not take short cuts just because your heavy or older or whatever then good for you . However when being considered for things if you come to a point where their are two equally good umpires and one is "more fit" than the other then you have to understand that its an appearence factor. but like I said previously if you can get around the field: be where you need to be when your supposed to be there then more power to you.

From what I understand, you don't make it to a LL regional without having gone to one of their week long umpire schools. So, my assumption is that all those who are working these games have had that training. You get trained the "LL" way, which is what they want.

Gee! A whole week's worth of training? That's remarkable! :rolleyes: And they are all volunteers, too! (yawn)

I worked a regional. I've never been to the regional facility. Now, my regional was NOT at the 12-year-old level, so if that what you meant, I don't know if that's true or not.

Going to training and being trained are two completely different things.

All, I'm just relaying my impressions of my experience working LL ball, from Minors through Big League. A lot of the decisions are made at the District and Regional HQ level, and each Region makes their own picks for Regional level umpires. I have not seen an umpire selected for the Western Regional games that didn't attended a clinic in San Bernandino. That may not the case in other Regions, or even the 'rule' in the Western Region.

I was not advocating nor evaluating the quality of the training or the graduates of the week long school in the Western Region. I have worked with some of the very best umpires and some of the very worst umpires in LL. I agree with Brian, however, that 'attending' a training does not equate to being qualified.

Based on the guys I've worked with, definitely agreed. Being in the West I would say that going to school in San Bernardino, while not stated, is almost certainly a requirement for working a regional in San Bernardino. Then again that level is by far the most popular in terms of applications from umpires. Once a district administrator approves an umpire's regional or World Series application, the decisions are made by the region or Williamsport, respectively. I would guess that if the people at regional HQ have seen you at their school they have some idea of your abilities and commitment to umpiring. Of course, we know how that goes sometimes... ;)

Just this year an umpire I know went to an upper level regional without going to LL school. I have also been to a regional, but not school. It definitely is not required for other levels.