J/R Manual
 

Hi guys,

I've been putting this off for years...but I'm just looking for some of your thoughts on the J/R book...is it worth the $40 (or whatever it is)?...I use the PBUC manual as my main source for rule interpretations for the OBR games...but I also do FED and NCAA games over the course of the season.

To those of you who have the manual...have you found it useful? If so, what is great about it? I've been to their website and have seen the basic pieces of the manual so I know that much.

Anybody on here not like it? why?

Are there manuals out there that are comparable to JR?

What publications would you say should be an "essential part of your library" (ggk)?

As we approach the off season up here in MN, I'm looking for some new study materials for the fall/winter.

Thanks for offering your thoughts.

BRD v J/R
 

J/R is an essential part of your library if you are serious about rules knowledge, but BRD by Carl Childress is more user friendly and has great references for all rule codes. i always go to BRD first. i rarely go to J/R. BRD is cheaper as well and is updated every year.
http://shop.officiating.com/x/product/brd2008

J/R is very valuable. Of the publicly available (BRD, PBUC, J/R) books, J/R is the only one which is intended to be comprehensive, covering all of baseball's written rules and interpretations. The PBUC manual is especially spotty in its coverage, and of course the BRD is heavily slanted towards rules which vary among OBR, FED, and NCAA.

J/R offers a coherent view and framework of the rules of the game, and in my opinion that makes it the most useful for learning the fabric of the rules.

Anyone who is serious about the rules of baseball should own all three.

It really depends on what levels you work. I only work NF and NCAA Rules games for the most part. If I work an OBR game it is once a year and this year I did not work that particular tournament. I personally see not extra value in buying this book. I only know a very few that use that book and they know the rules a lot better than most. It really comes down to if you think you need this book to better learn the rules. I do not see the need personally, but just like anything this comes down to if you feel this book is helpful to you. I put this in the category as to what shoes you buy. The brand you like is not necessarily the brand I will like.

Peace

Coin flip
 

I agree with every post on the subject above. I love the BRD. I like J/R too. Of course, that may be why I found this website first, got turned onto the BRD, and eventually made my way over to J/R. One doesn't replace the others.

I find JR to be "friendly" reading material. The situations provided help you understand the meaning of the rule being discussed. It is a stand-alone type of material designed to help you interpret the rules correctly before you take the field.

I find the BRD to be a "cross-reference" type of reading material. When you lay the BRD side by side w/ the rule books, you begin to understand nuances among the rule codes. When situations vary among codes, it may supply a reason supporting why the differences exist in the first place. One cannot over emphasize "no provision" or "same as" enough. IOW, although BRD targets the rule differences, it also builds upon common rule adoptions not explicitly stated among the rule codes.

This is great guys...keep 'em coming...unless all of the posters have pretty much summed it up!

The BRD and the J/R are two essential manuals all umpires should have. Yes the J/R is worth it. Nice resource to get examples of plays, situations. Very much a real world based book. The plays given as examples are ones you might see. Yes, there are a few "third-world" plays in there, but not as many as the BRD.
Go to Rulesofbaseball.com you can view free some of the content of the J/R.
That might help you decide. But its $40 , well invested.

my ..02
 

I have them both........I think they are essential for having a complete reference library... I like the way the rules are grouped in the J/R and the way they are referenced in the BRD.

I carry the BRD with me..............

For What its Worth.....
 

I have both the BRD and this year I got J/R. Next year I will probably get PBUC just to have it. I am still looking for the Jim Evans Annotated to buy so if anyone has a hard copy of it for sale---let me know.

I use both of these books. The new 2008 J/R references some FED and NCAA rules/rulings. I have read the 2006 BRD about five times cover to cover. Working on my third read through of the 2008 BRD and have two reads of J/R down and will start my third after I finish the BRD. The J/R is definitely worth it and complements BRD well. Any umpire serious about his career and development needs these two books and needs to read them along with the actual rules for the level they call. For me-that means all three rule sets plus NAIA overlay and American Legion overlay and USSSA overlay to OBR. I do not claim to be a rules expert but I am working on it. You should strive to become one, too.

My two cents, your mileage may vary. (I forgot who I stole that from but thanks- I love it.)

Dave

Would you guys advise buying the 2008 ones now, or waiting for the 2009 ones to come out? The rules probaby won't change that much...

Buy it now so......
 

you can read it through a couple of times in the off season. They don't change the OBR that often, the FED rule changes for 2009 are out and they did not change much. NCAA will meet and publish in the winter as will MLB/OBR and printing will not occur until February at the earliest which is too late to study much with college games starting and pre-season train up meetings so buy now and start getting ready for next year. While you are at it, if you can find one and afford it, attend a clinic sometime this fall or winter. We can always get better.

Hey guys, this is a great conversation and, as a coach (yes, one of "those"), I appreciate the diligence put into knowing the rules and situations by you all.

Is there any value to a coach have these manuals as well? I have read through, and have copies of, the NF and OBR rules books (don't need NCAA at the moment, this kids are only 11 and 9), but would getting these additional materials help? I guess what I'm asking is, do you know of coaches who get these manuals and do you think it is of use to them?

Thanks again.

Talk to Rich Ives.

Certainly there's value, especially you encounter an umpire who doesn't know an applicable rule and his subsequent judgment might hurt your team.

Should a Coach Read the Rules?
 

Absolutely! I coached and regularly bought the rule books and took the NFHS umpiring test just to see what I knew/did not know. I coached from T-ball to Legion. Do you think that knowing a couple of rules might make you a better coach and make your players better too? Absolutely!

Go for it, when you quit coaching you might decide to put your money where your mouth is and become an umpire.

It is tougher than coaching, keeps you in the game and it is very rewarding both personally and in some ways financially.

My two cents. Your mileage may vary. (grin)

I have the BRD in route...J/R probably later this fall. thanks for the tips fellas

my .02
 

you wont regret it....

I buy one every year and donate the old one to a new umpire in my association.....

I'll add my thoughts into the mix.

The Jaksa/Roder manual is a good resource for interpreting grey areas of the rulebook, so long as everybody else is using it. Many of its interpretations differ from how most umpires would rule on plays. For example:

-J/R states that a runner can only be called out for interference outside the 45 foot running lane if a) He is hit with the throw or b) He causes the first baseman to misplay the throw from the catcher. If the catcher tries to throw the ball around the runner and this causes an overthrow, no interference is to be called. However, many people say that if the runner being outside the running lane causes the catcher to make a bad throw, this should be interpreted as interference.

-J/R states that batter interference on the catcher's throw to retire a stealing runner should be called when the batter makes extraordinary movement while inside the batter's box, regardless of intent. For example, swing carrying the batter over home plate but his feet do not leave the box. The official rules do not say anything about extraordinary or abnormal movement inside the batter's box.

-J/R states that on a missed fielding try, the fielder must essentially disappear or risk obstruction. On a missed attempt to glove a thrown ball however, the fielder does not have to immediately disappear.

-The J/R manual states that when the umpire puts the ball in play, all fielders (except for the catcher) must be in fair territory. After the umpire says "play" the fielders may go into foul territory. I have been told that this is not true- that all fielders must stay in fair territory after the umpire signals "play".

So basically, the J/R manual can be useful, but a lot of its material I find questionable, as outlined above. Unless everyone you work with uses it, I recommend taking its contents with a grain of salt.

while I agree with that conclusion (and the conclusion applies to all non-official publications, including JEA and BRD), I think J/R is right on most of the items you mentioned.

The J/R and the other references (BRD, Evans, etc.) have been invaluable to me. This is not because they provide definitive answers to every "what if," but because they examine and consider so many plays that simply don't fall neatly under a black-and-white section of the rule book.

Whether or not you find what you're looking for in these various publications, studying them gets you thinking along the right lines. They acknowledge the gray areas and at least provide guidelines and recommendations that will usually steer you in the right direction.

When I started umpiring almost 40 years ago, I knew the OBR book pretty well—the players and coaches thought I was knowledgeable. But there were so many contingencies I was unsure about, and when I asked other umpires, they usually quite confidently provided an authoritative answer but on follow-up questions quickly surrendered. In fact, most of the other umps I knew at that time weren't much interested in talking about rules. I think some of them were so confident in their incorrect interpretations that they were able to bluff their way successfully.

I have hardly had any sort of big-time umpiring career, and I gave up baseball for softball several years ago. But these books (and this forum) have helped make me a vastly better umpire. Interestingly, after you have done baseball for a long time, you realize how weak the supporting literature is for softball.

I have actually found that some of the things I have learned on this forum are more advanced than what most of my colleagues are used to. That is still a compliment to this forum.

And you wrote, "Many of its [J/R] interpretations differ from how most umpires would rule on plays."

"Colleagues" and "most umpires" are the same guys aren't they.
I detect a common theme. ;)

My bad. I should have said that the J/R manual differs from how some umpires would rule on plays.

And, perhaps, instead of "many" of the interpretations you should have said "a few".

There are hundreds of interpretations in the Jaksa/Roder manual. Only a tiny fraction of those were ever different from the OBR or Evans rulings. Some of those have been edited in recent editions so that they are now all in agreement.

How many of the interpretations are different today? A couple? A few?

Certainly not "many".

That's the other thing. Why do they charge us $60 for a book that literally falls apart, then come out with a more correct version the next year?

My J/R is dated 1995. :)

Like Ivory soap, 99.4%.

The only problem with using J/R or BRD to become more knowledgeable is the coaches don't even read the regular rule book and don't believe you when you quote from a resource, any resource.

That's not a problem with using the resource, it's a problem with coaches.

I got into trouble for calling interference when the batter swung and missed at a pitch, and his swing carried his upper body over home plate, causing a bad throw from the catcher. To me, this is extraordinary movement even if it was inside the batter's box.

A rule difference
 

Perhaps you got into trouble for calling interference according to OBR rules. Who ran into who? Let it go when a right-handed catcher runs into the batter.

This would have been more difficult to criticize using NCAA rules. The batter is not allowed to cross-over the box while a play is being made.

You don't need J/R to make that correct (as I envision the play) call -- you can get that ruling right out of OBR.

Sometimes umpires "get in trouble" by making the right call. It's part of the job.