Run Him?
 

If this were a HS or similar level game, would you have run the third base coach?

Clip


Tim.

Since we had a base umpire coming down to third, I'm guessing this was a 2-man crew.

Nope, I wouldn't have run him. Mainly because I would've called the out and headed right back to the A position. He would've been gesturing at my back.

Depends on what he said.

If he says something personal, then probably. Other than that I see no reason why this coach should be ejected.

Ditto. Would have had to have gotten personal.

Ditto.

I agree. I would have been heading back toward A, and he follows me at his own risk. I don't like coach's charging onto the field from the coach's box or bench, so he would have been on a super short leash.

run or not
 

Coach was probably more upset about sending his runner to 3rd, didn't look like he has much speed:D

No reason to - as Rich said why even talk to him. Call the out and move on immediately.

Thanks
David

My thoughts also.

I guess I'm the odd man out here because I'd have run him. I have a problem with coaches at this level that don't understand decorum , and know how to control themselves when they disagree with a judgment call.


Tim.

I watched the clip enough to form my opinion, thank you very much. But I won't apologize for my judgment being different than yours................


Tim.

I think the conversation went like this:

Coach: (walking towards the umpire) Blue, that restaurant you recommended last night was the worst place I have ever eaten at!

Umpire: Well, what did you order?

Coach: (now standing on the field in front of umpire) I had the Oyster Rockefeller. I was on the can all night.

Umpire: It a Rib Shack. Why would you order the oysters?

Coach: (now turning and using both hand to gesture towards his runner) Johnny had the same thing. Look at him, he can barely sprint.

Umpire: Coach in my judgment that’s a great restaurant. My choice stands.

Coach: (walking away): Your culinary choice stinks!

Umpire: (big hook) You’re out of here!

Umpire: Oh and by the way, check out the chops at the Mad Cow Inn out on Route 48. They’re heavenly.


Hey, it could happen.:D :D

I don't shy away from confrontation, but I just don't understand why the umpire stuck around. Make the call, turn back, jog to A. If headus rattus wants to get shots in, he's going to have to work pretty hard at it and then he's going to look like the aggressor.

I had the very same play in a Jr AL game about 3-4 years ago. Same deal except I don't remember the coach coming out on the field but he was hot. I simply looked at him and said "Scott, the throw was in time and the tag was down.". I turned and walked away and left him to argue with himself. No ejection...

Lawrence

Maybe the 3b coach wasn't 'charging'. He was however entering the field of play and leaving his coaching box to argue a call, no? I don't know about Kansas, but that's frowned upon in my area, at least at the high school level.

Frowned upon yes. Ejectable, no.

Agreed. In FED the act of leaving the coaching box to argue a call is not by itself 'ejectable'. If the coach, in my judgement, exhibits behavior inconsistant with the spirit of fair play, he is subject to warning or ejection.

Here is an interesting situation for NCAA guys. NCAA rule 3-2 says ' no assitant coach may leave their position anywhere to to appeal an umpires decision'. May the Head coach? Appeal in this case means argue?

:d
 

No

Not to speak for Tim, but it seems to me that he referring to a game below the collegiate level.

A HEAD coach, sure. An assistant is going to get run pretty quickly if he does anything but tell the BR to turn left. And the head guys know that.

I have no problem discussing a call with a head coach, ever. If the HC asks for time and approaches me in a calm manner we can discuss almost anything. The coach in this clip didn't have far to go because the umpire was standing there. Absent a request for time to discuss the play, I would have been hightailing it to A, so the coach would have to follow me across the diamond to talk.

Just curious, how do you address a HC who is yelling from the bench at you?

Alot is being made about the umpire not scurrying back to his position. If you notice..as soon as he makes the out call...he starts to take a couple steps backward, even starting to turn sideways...indicating to me he is heading back to his position, when the 3rd base coach comes out on him.
Umpire stops...both have their say..and moves on. About the only thing I see is maybe he couldve shut down the coach a bit quicker, holding up a hand, tell him to get his carcass back in the box.
Run him for that? Yeah, I guess maybe, if he says one of the magic words.
But your much better served on game management if you dont. Because the way it plays here...the throw comes in..looks like an out..you whack it.
Coach voices his momentary displeasure...you give him a quick "nope...tag was there"...and its over.
Makes it look like you handled everything start to finish, that your the one in control.

I'm not going to 'ignore' a coach who jogs out to talk to me either. I will more than likely call time before he reaches my position. I think we are more or less in alignment on what we would do, on the field.

I asked the 'yelling from the bench' question, because I had a coach leave the dugout and stand there complaining about something. I ignored him until he started getting on me for ignoring him. He said something about "Don't you ignore me, I'm talking to you". So I stopped ignoring him and I said something to him about getting his butt back in the dugout, which he did.

Hmm,
 

Tim:

We all have different levels of what is acceptable.

Knowing that I am not even close to an ejection here. This is a real "common" type situation. From high school and above I really don't see any reason for an ejection.

RP: Why call "TIME" there is no one on base.


Regards,

Edit;

I also would like to have the seen the umpire not moving when he made the call. Even though he is out of frame it is obvious that he did not come set before the call.

T

Tim, in this instance, the BR being thrown out at 3b, I probably wouldn't be concerned about time. I was thinking about a coach coming to the mound, where I call time as I see him coming out.

My thoughts were the same on the umpire looking like he's still moving on the call. How many of you don't actually pivot on a sure extra base hit? I'm more inclined to not pivot and just sprint directly toward the 2b cut-out, glancing at the touch of 1b over my left shoulder. In the clip, it probably would have been better had he stopped to see the play, then move several steps closer to make the call. Just my 2cents.

No reason to eject here.

Since when does the coach need to call time to argue? :rolleyes: LOL I too won't pick on something petty like that. Just gonna make things worse.

I also am NOT going to run away from the play immediately either! When I am making the "big call" I am staying down and staring at the play. Yup, this DOES invite them to come out. No problem. Me staying there or not, if they WANT to come out on me they will, and staying there means less time wasted waiting for the coach to make it across to field towards me. I also think that leaving the position too soon makes it appear that you know you blew the call and are "running away" from it. MANY coaches agree with this perception. Just ask around a bit.

I have no judgement on the call itself. It is somewhat grainy video coming from youtube and the shot is not still to evaluate it well.

As to the umpire moving while the play happened, I think this is becoming more and more "acceptable". You see it all over the place now. MLB, MiLB, D1, etc... I would say half the video shown at last years NCAA Regional Clinic that included a base umpire showed the guy moving, and close to half had the home plate ump moving too! I have mixed thoughts about that. I was chastised by some guys in my college group for suggesting at the 2007 Regional Clinic that soccer referee's have been making calls on subtle things that happen while at a dead sprint for years and getting it right, why can't an umpire make some of the easier calls while moving?

On some calls, I think staying still it adventageous, on others, I think it prevents you from actually SEEING the play. So, it is tough to say when and where you should be moving or set to make calls. I suppose your experience will guide you on that.

I think there are two sides to this, really. On one hand, if you stay, it looks like you're looking for a fight. If you go quickly, it looks like you are running away.

My method: I make the call with good timing, turn, and jog back to the A position. With good timing, it certainly doesn't look like you're running out of there. All that said, I wouldn't have stayed as long as the guy in the clip. I expect a coach to disagree with the call, it went against him, after all.

And coming completely set and being critical of a call where the umpire isn't is overrated, I agree. I work basketball and many of my calls are made on the run.

Rich, calling for pizza on your way off the court doesn't qualify as making a call on the run. :D

How about ordering a round from the neighborhood watering hole?

Basketball is just one football season away. :D

Roger that!

Hey don't go skipping football so easy. I've only been waiting since November for it to get here. :rolleyes:

Me, too. First scrimmage August 16. Bring it on. Baseball gear in the closet.

Excellent. We have scrimmages starting the week after that.

would not run him
 

I would not run him unless he got personnel. Also why would the ones that said they would be headed back to the first base line leave so quick?? It was a very close play. I would have also called him out.