Iowa/Dayton
 

Surprised no posts on this yet....

Rescinding ejections???? What the HELL are they thinking??? Might as well light a match to see if there is gas in the tank...

peoria / dayton
 

i am troubled by this...let me first to say that the Midwest League President is a good man but I think he erred here...if they don't want to use pitchers as position players to complete the game than forfeit....if you act like that, i think you forfeit your privilege to play ball anyway

This is a bad, bad precedent.

The worst part is that the kids umpiring this game have no choice but to stay unless they want to piss their careers away. In the real world, we'd head to the car no matter what a league president had to say.

After a Peoria player was hit in the top of the first, Castillo hit two batters in the bottom half -- one in the head. The second hit batsmen by Castillo, Angel Cabrerra, made an aggressive slide into second to break up a double play. Castillo followed that by throwing his next pitch up-and-in to the next Dayton batter

The place was already on fire.

No ejections at this point. Why wasn't something done before the fight broke out?

why would they, the league president would've reversed them anyway...what a joke. yep, i agree...the kids had to stay for that fiasco no matter what...or kiss your chance at the show goodbye.

In the video I saw, it seems like the umpires were hesitant at first to get between the two coaches.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/m/con...tid=1688297742

In 20/20 hindsight,could this have been handled better by the umpires?

Thats all they need is to try to get between then and get hurt or be accused of pushing them.

I don't buy that. They ultimately ended up getting between them anyways. They just waited too long (or at least the younger one did).

Admittedly, even if they did get between them, I'm not sure what they could have done to get them to quit jawing with each other.

What would you have done to try to mitigate the problem?

it's not really their duty to break up fights is it?

Break up? No. Help prevent?

I realize there's no book on this but I'm simply curious as what type of preventative measures could have taken place.

sure this probably could of been handled better, but the outcome was probably still going to be the same. so you issue warnings or eject the pitcher, at this level you don’t know what these players are going to do. regardless, once the managers start going at it shi* has already hit the fan. this isn't the first time that a league president has reinstated players to finish a game. it happened in back to back games in the south atlantic league last year.

I am not going to question the umpire's actions here and I think that the actions of the League President were apprehensible but it's the Minor's people, what more do you expect?

Now if this were an amateur game such as we do, you have to ask yourself, "Well one of the managers has to cross the field to get nose to nose with the other and I am pretty sure what the "meeting" was going to be about." so I would probably dump the manager who is crossing the field because he is obviously not looking to resolve anything here. I know that a lot of people are asking why not dump F1 for throwing at batters. The problem is, you better be damn sure that F1 is in fact doing this because you will have to explain yourself either to an assigner or in the ejection report. Pitchers do loose control, although, from reading the report, I do not think that loss of control was the case here.

This is not a precedent. It has happened before. The league president reversed the ejections to allow the game to continue and conclude. He then reinstated the ejections so that he could enforce fines and suspensions.

Doesn't seem all that terrible of a way to handle it, IMO.

i guess i understand that...but the fact that managers had to basically call and complain, then trump the ejections, the reinstate them...I don't know...seems odd to me...somewhat tough on the umpires too...so you ejected somebody, now they get to come back in and play in that same game? I guess I'll never have to worry about it since I'll never work MLB at any level...if that ever happens to me, I'm leaving...they can get some other sucker to come in there and work the game.

Since I am not a Minor League Ump I'm not sure what I would do. I am sure these guys are trained what they can and can't do in a potentionally violent situation so I'm not going to Mon. night QB them. In the High School age that I work I may try to stand between them, but I am not going to put my hands on them, and If I see that blows are about to be exchanged I'm out of harms way and writing numbers and names and getting someone to call the Police.
I am not there to break up fights. I do that at my full time job. Luckilly I don't Umpire in the same Jurisdiction that I work, so according to my Dept I am expected to call 911 only.

That's the appropriate process. The managers contact the league president if they wish to appeal the ejectons to allow the game to continue.

The umpires did their job, now the league president does his.

Those ejections reinstated are accompanied by fines and suspensions. A fine to a Single A player and manager is more consequential than one to a ML player or manager.

It's not a great video, but here's some of it -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e36dZ...eature=related

I know the plate umpire - once things settle down I'll see what I can find out -

JJ

"Things got heated in a hurry at Fifth Third Field when Castillo (0-2) beaned Dayton shortstop Zachary Kozart with one on and no outs in the opening frame.

Kozart left the game"

Considering there was a HBP in the top half, I would probably on my toes.

"but the hostility started to build when Brandon Waring grounded a ball past Castillo toward second baseman Gian Guzman. Castillo and Guzman collided as Waring reached base safely, but Guzman suffered a broken leg and left the contest on a stretcher.

Denis Phipps followed with a two-run double and Devin Mesoraco added a two-RBI base hit to give the Dragons a 4-0 lead. Angel Cabrera, who had lifted the Dragons to a 4-3 victory with a walk-off homer in the bottom of the ninth on Wednesday night, was plunked by Castillo."

Castillo should've been tossed. Probably the manager as well.

"An agitated Cabrera took first base and Keltavious Jones grounded into a force play, but the Chiefs took exception to Cabrera's hard slide into shortstop Nate Samson."

Cabrera is now done, or at least warned. The rest of the game should now go off without any problems.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/n...milb&fext=.jsp

I am listening to the game right now...I checked the box score-there were three HPB the night before.

The Peoria announcer is about three hundred times better than i would have expected a Single A Radio guy to be but, he said nothing about the second HPB in the bottom of the first.

Here comes the hard slide...he does not even mention it was a hard slide.

Now, during the next batter, he says that the "Umpire" was pointint towards the Chiefs dugout and bullpen....then all hell breaks lose. Pick it up at about 46:00 ...you have to register but it is free. http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...8&ymd=20080724 click on the little speaker by the Peoria game.

Joe In Missouri

Mr. Umpire is right. Though rare, League Presidents have rescinded ejections in the past to allow a game to finish...and then subsequently handed out fines and suspensions to all. Usually the suspensions are staggered. Unlike MLB...there is no appeal process in MiLB so any suspensions will have to be served when they are told to serve them.

I will add that the last time I heard of this, the President rescinded the ejections but required both teams to remain in he clubhouse except for the manager and the players actually in the game.

With the amount of press this is getting, I'd be shocked if there aren't a lot of suspensions/fines...and a few of them healthy too.

They had enough players
 

Listening to the webcast...Peoria had reported their subs. They had pitchers playing two outfield slots and the announcer said that Dayton woul be doing the same. The pitcher was warming up then the umpires headed into the Dayton dugout. Maybe they had just gotten the phone call?

If the League President actually nixed the ejections, that is a horrible thing to do. Someone could defend him if the teams did not have enough players-but they DID!

Anyway, the delay AFTER the subs came onto the field and the umps went into the Dayton dugout was at least 20 minutes...I did not time it. From the Brawl until the resumption of play was over an hour.

Joe in Missouri

PS Another tidbit was that the Cabrera slide into second was "spikes high". Of course that should be an ejection if it happened. But, this announcer did not say a WORD about the slide until after the brawl.

IMO, their biggest mistake was waiting around to let the teams call the League President. I would have gotten the ejected players out of there and started the game. If managers didnt' want to field the team, then a forfeit would be in order.

That is their right.

No you wouldn't. Not if you were a minor leaguge umpire who wanted to keep his job.