What a Ploy.......
 

Last night during the first few innings of my game, every time the home team would allow a runner to get to third, one or two pitches to the next batter were thrown clearly inside the lines of the batters box in what I was sure was an attempt to drive the batter back out of the box. Each time, the batter would bail out to avoid the pitch. Then the catcher would come up and attempt a throw to pick off R3. Every time this happened, the rat b@$t@d manager would argue for an INT call because the batter stepped back. There was no doubt from the way he argued the rule that he knew the rule well and that this was a designed ploy to draw an INT call. It took me by surprise, and I'm curious how you all would have handled it.


Tim.

I'd tell him the batter is allowed to get out of the way of the pitch. In fact, he is required to do so.

I'd tell the coach the batter had two options on the pitch:
1) Stand in the box and get hit or
2) Step back and avoid the pitch

The batter made the correct decision, what is the issue again??

How close were you to ejecting the manager?
 

The third time I heard that from the dugout, the manager goes. Did you think about doing that, or something else to get the rat to quiet down?

[QUOTE]By clearly inside do you mean a deliberate attempt to hit the batter.? Sure sounds like it and you could have a "nightmare" on your hands

If this was done continuous then I would probably warn both teams at this point before something "ugly" happens.

If this team was constantly throwing the ball CLEARLY inside it is a matter of time before the "other" teams F1 "plunks" someone. I have seen it happen.

I am not saying that F1 does not have the right to pitch inside but from your OP it doesn't sound like F1 was merely pitching inside but throwing a "purpose" pitch which could lead to trouble.

Pete Booth

They were definitely "purpose" pitches, Pete. The first couple of times it happened I simply told him that in my judgment there was no interference. Later, he came out to "explain" to me that if the batter doesn't stay still in the box and makes any other movement, including stepping out of the box, that he's interfered. I then told him that if there was one more instance of him trying to draw an INT call this way, I'd eject him and his pitcher.


Tim.

Good call, Tim.

JM

"Hey coach, if your pitcher would keep the ball out of the batter's box, that wouldn't happen!"

Tim, you handled it properly, warn then eject. It has been my experience that if you ignore something as serious as this, things will eventually become unmanagable. As one of our most famous umpires, Barnie Fife would say, "nip it in the bud, Andy!"

Good call, Tim.
Ordering the throw at the batter was a deliberate unsporting act.

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]Follow up question.......from the uninitiated.....

R3 steals home......would make it easily but pitcher plunks batter.....call?

If you felt that the pitcher </b>deliberately</b> hit the batter, would that make any difference to the call?

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]Ball is dead, BR to first, R3 returns.

How many times do you think they'll try this? :rolleyes:

[quote=Jurassic Referee]Hard to imagine, JR.
If the runner will make it easily, then the runner beat the ball and prolly scored before the pitch plunked the batter. No?
...Or else the catcher plays the runner, or the batter interferes ?

[QUOTE=mick]Mick, iirc that exact play happened in a Yankees game in the 70's. The pitcher went to a full windup and they sent the runner. He admitted after that they already had a play set up for situations like that with right-handed batters. They throw at the hitter. If they hit him, fine. Men on first and third but no run. If they missed the batter, it still usually made the batter bail out and gave the catcher a clearer, easier shot at the runner.

Toss the "coach" as soon as you know he is encouraging pitchers to throw at the batter. People like that do not belong in youth sports.

I'd agree with you if I felt that he was having his pitcher throw at the batters. That wasn't the case. They were brush back pitches with a purpose.


Tim.

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]Sure. Dead ball, runner returns and pitcher is tossed. warnings are for uncertainty, if I am sure he hit the batter deliberately he is gone. If not sure, but suspicious, put a warning on the pitcher and return the runner.

I would expect the pitcher to throw a pitch a RH batter would bail on if a runner is attempting to steal home. The difference between a purpose pitch and a hit batter could be inches.

I agree with Tim. there is a big difference with a pitcher brushing back a batter as opposed to a pitcher throwing at the batter.

Should this Little League "coach" even be teaching his players to brush back batters? His only motivation behind doing it was to get a cheap interference call. To me that is abusing the rules of the game. Sadly there is no rule that covers his sleazy tactics, but I know I would have a VERY short leash on him for any arguments over interference.

Not that it matters for the purposes of this discussion, but this was a 16-18 Babe Ruth game.


Tim.

I didn't think that it was LL as the throw down to F5 was for a pick-off (leading off is not allowed in LL). As far as drawing the INT call, once you as the umpire read what is going on, you simply make sure that if there really is INT, you call it. Obviously, the benefit of the doubt will go to the batter who is trying to avoid the pitch. And again, if the DC has a problem you simply remind the Rat that if his pitcher would keep the ball out of the batter's box, the batter would not have to avoid the pitch. One and only one reminder of that sort would be all that I would give. After that, the DC is treading on very thin ice.

Well, F2's in LL still throw down to pick off R3's, who can and usually do run down the line as soon as the ball reaches the batter. The fact that they can't lead off is irrelevant.

In fact, this particular move used to drive me absolutely INSANE!! They would do it over and over and over and over again, they would do it until they sailed one over F5's head and they would stop for a while. I never, ever saw an R3 put out on that play from F2.