Rob Drake's ejection
 

Did anyone just see Drake toss Piniella? Can someone give me an example of a more horse**** ejection at the MLB level? I'm struggling to find one.

For those who didn't see it, Fairchild (at first) said the hitter didn't go on a half-swing, then Piniella comes out a little bit and Fairchild put his hand up and said not to come out. Lou has a few quick words from long distance, goes back towards the dugout, and Drake throws him out while Lou isn't even facing the field or either umpire.

Disclaimer: I'm a Cubs fan.

Did he leave the dugout to argue balls and strikes?

Yes.

Other disclaimer: I'm not stupid.

Huh? If he came out to argue the check swing, he should go. Why is that a bad ejection?

He should go immediately then...not after letting him say a few words, return almost all the way to the dugout, and then run him. I'm not disagreeing that he should have been dumped, but it was handled terribly in my opinion, hence why I called it horse****.

It was as if it took Drake a while to realize what was even going on.

But you said you were a Cubs fan.

That actually made me laugh out loud.

I do try. I'm a lifelong Sox fan. Boston and Chicago, my two favorite AL teams.:)

Or Piniella uttered an "F You" as he walked off. How could we possibly know?

Scenario, Drake doesn't dump him, next inning Guillen comes out to argue balls and strikes with Drake. Dump him?

Fairchild has got to take blame for this one.

Because Brian is a Cubs fan. :D

Peace

At least they're winning, unlike my team.

Not right now they are not. ;)

Peace

Yep, I saw it. Completely legit toss in my view. He came out of the dugout a little more than a little bit, and quickly, and stopped only when Fairchild put his hand up and said not to come out (he was already out).

What I don't understand is why Fairchild had to do anything. Drake should have tossed him as soon as he came out of the dugout to argue.

Also don't understand why Drake did not call a strike on the swing, and why Fairchild also thought he did not go. It wasn't close to a checked swing from my view, even before the replay.

If he ejected him about 20 seconds earlier I would agree that it was completely legit. I think it was legit in that yes, he argued balls and strikes and had to go, but it was weakly and childishly done while Lou didn't even know about it. He actually tossed him (at least) twice as Lou wasn't even facing him and didn't even know it happened because he was leaving.

He waited too long and then got Lou way too late. Might as well have just waited until the next pitch.

If your definition of a horse**** ejection is he waited 20 seconds too long I agree. If your concern was that it should not have happened at all I disagree. And I expect Lou knew it was going to happen when he came out of the dugout, at least that would be normal response.

Oh I know it should have happened, and I'm sure Lou was probably thinking the same as he was walking away...then it happened.

Anytime someone is ejected, the ejection is legit. The issue is whether you or I agree with it. Honestly, whether you or I agree with it is not the issue. We were not there and did not hear everything that was said. And if we did our opinion might completely change. I do not know how anyone can say while looking just on TV whether someone should not should not be ejected. Unless we hear everything that was said, we are only speculating.

Peace

That makes as much sense as me saying the complete opposite.

Is that pretty much what you said, the opposite?

Peace

No.

Yes. :D

Peace

I agree 100% that Lou should have gotten ejected. What I do not understand\agree with is why Rob Drake ejected him while Lou had his back turned him. I think that the 1B umpire should have ejected him. As mention before Rob Drake made the ejection sign at least twice before Lou had any idea.

what?? the issue is either the issue or it isn't the issue. the issue can't possibly be the the issue AND not be the issue, it's not possible. something has to be the issue.

Fairchild should have tossed him for coming out of the dugout, period.

Drake was cleaning up the mess that Fairchild started. An untimely mess, too, because Lou had his back turned when dumped. It was just bad timing by everyone.

Drake had an off night behind the dish, as I was yelling "WHAT!?" more than a couple times. It happens. The trouble with umpiring is that there's no one on the bench to relieve you in the fifth inning if it's just not your night.

I always like seeing "Sweet Lou" getting dumped. In all these years, he hasn't learned that arguing balls & strikes is a quick ticket out. And his language hasn't improved either! :D

Hmmm,
 

We can learn from this ejection:

Minor League umpires are now being taught that in this EXACT situation (i.e. "off umpire" making the ejection of a manager walking away) they should eject in a voice only loud enough to be heard by the manager and THEN when he returns to get his "two cents worth" you follow with the BIG Ejection mechanic.

Looks better all around.

Regards,

Brian,

This post shows your true colors - you are fan #1 and an umpire #2, however, I won't hold it against you.

Fairchild did exactly what probably every other AAA fill in did (not including Drake or Gooch since they're pretty much full timers anyways). As Pinella came out onto the field to argue the check swing, Fairchild put the stop sign up and told Pinella to "Don't come out here". While Pinella stopped, he continued to pop off and get in a couple more shots, Drake decided he had heard enough and took the EJ for Fairchild.

Considering the status of Fairchild and Pinella, I think Fairchild handled it about as good as you can considering if he would have dumped Pinella from long distance, Pinella would have created a major scene. Fairchild did what MLB wants him to do and that is "try" to keep him in the game if possible. Drake, on the other hand, saw that Pinella was taking advantage of a younger AAA fill-in, stuck up for his partner and took the EJ himself.

As the plate umpire, when you ask for help on a check swing, you do not allow a team to go after your partner because they didn't agree with his decision. Drake did exactly what any "umpire's umpire" would do and that is stick up for his partner. While it may have not looked pretty, it was the right thing to do and that is ANOTHER example of why Drake will be the next full time MLB umpire. Could Fairchild have dumped Pinella...yes, Should Fairchild have dumped Pinella... maybe but talking about it in the lockeroom, Fairchild probably thanked Drake for taking the bullet for him. That is what umpires do for each other.

Brian, ofcourse, you would not understand this because you are a FAN. Maybe you should visit a baseball blog for FANS - I think you would be more comfortable there rather than here - this is for UMPIRES

I'm guessing you don't know Brian very well. He's about as umpire as you can get. Umpires can be fans as well as umpires. I don't think Drake handled the situation ideally myself, and I'm a White Sox fan. Saying that Brian wouldn't understand something because he's a fan is just asinine at best. Not only is Brian a top-notch umpire (who doesn't need any help from me, but I've got his back anyway) he is also is a passionate Cubs fan. That doesn't make him more fan than umpire, by a long shot.

I'd like to take issue with this.

What, does the MLB assign guardian angels for the minor leaguers?

So a major league umpire, with every reason to dump, decides not to because he is afraid?
If that's true he's may be qualified for LL duty, but I doubt it.


That may be OK in LL. The seasoned umpire taking up for the fragile 13 yr old on the bases that's getting an earful from a daddy coach, but I don't see it here.
Ever hear of "trial by fire" or "experience is the best teacher" or "learn by your mistakes"?
Fairchild is a seasoned umpire, I doubt he needs protecting.


Once Drake allowed Pinnella on the field and at best, once Fairchild interacted with Pinnella, it was out of Drake's hands.
Now it's between Chad and Lou and Drake is out of the pic.
If Drake wanted to stick up for his partner he should have stopped Lou before Chad had to.
And I think that's what Brian was saying as well.
Not that I'm trying to protect him or anything



Why would Drake making the ejection be considered taking a bullet?

If I was U1 and had successfully turned Pinnella away without much effort at all and then PU ejects, as you allude to, on my behalf, I'd be peeved.
I don't think I'd be thanking him in the locker room. Rather, we may be adding ejection ettiquette(sp) to the pre game.

All of this wisdom, no doubt, comes from your many years of MLB experience.

What a crock.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index...lb_1&mode=wrap

The ejection happens at the start of this recap. I think the video we see of Lou at the start is what he yelled right before the boot. Then, I think, we see it from a different angle.

That's F***ing Sh*t is what he said...REMARKABLE that the 1B Umpire did not run him.

Joe

So I went and looked at this and Drake is clearly wrong here. The swearing happens after the ejection. Fairchild seems to be the fellow who knows that 9.02c is in effect and Drake doesn't.
________
Bubbler pipe

Which season was that?:confused: A little more salt and pepper please!:)

There's 34 other posts on this subject including yours. How many years of experience at the MLB level do you think there is in total from all these posters?


Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'm guessing you didn't understand my premise.

I wasn't accusing Fairchild of not being a good umpire. I was responding to UES who made many suppositions.
1. He didn't eject because he was afraid of the major scene Lou would have made.
I doubt that was his reason, but IF it was.....
2. Fairchild was thankful that Drake took the bullett
I doubt that he was, and I explained why. Do you disagree?
3. It was Drake's responsibility to protect his crew member on a check swing call
Maybe, but he waited way to long to start protecting IMO and it made Fairchild look weak, and I don't think he appreciated it. I know I wouldn't and I explained why.

Disagreeing with an opinion is one thing, calling it a crock seems ignorant.

MLB aside. I have 2 questions for you

1. How many times as U1 have you required, needed or wanted PU to rescue you and take over for you in a dicussion with a coach pre-ejection?


2. How many times have you inserted yourself into another seasoned umps discussion and taken over?

Very good point. I also think an umpire follwing a manager to the dugout looks a little weird.

Guys, none of us was there so we don't know exactly what happened. Absent the report to the league office, we will never know. All this is pure speculation. I have another take on this, having watched the video several times. What if it went down like this.

1) Drake asks for help
2) Fairchild gives it
3) Lou comes out to Fairchild
4) Fairchild says, " Lou we aren't going there today"
5) Lou starts to walk back to dugout
6) While facing Drake, Lou say's something like "And you are Bovine Excrement too, Drake, you F'ing hippy, how could both you blind idiots miss that?"

Just thinking outloud here......

What does that have to do with ejecting a manager?

I read that this is Pinella's first ejection of the year! He must be mellowing out a bit.

Scenario revised:

6) While turning toward the dugout, Lou say's something like "And you are Bovine Excrement too, Drake, you F'ing hippy, how could both you blind idiots miss that?"

Let's not hair split.

[B]I'll[B] take issue with that. If any manager came out of the dugout to argue a check swing, every one of my 13 year LL umpires would dump him in a heartbeat. They just got back from the weeklong in San Beradino, and are itching to have someone put one toe over the line.

Again I ask, WHAT SEASON did Chad Fairchild become a SEASONED umpire? He's a AAA umpire, so where has he gotten the tag, "seasoned," from?

I believe it was 2005, on a flight to Denver, he got some extra oregano on his pasta primavera.

I agree with Mr. Patrino - I think Lou made a personal remark directed at Chad and/or Drake after he turned back towards the dugout and because Drake was in close proximity, he heard it and dumped him immediately. Usually, it doesn't look good when a coach gets ejected as he's walking away - but I'll bet that Drake was thinking "Screw it, Pinella shouldn't have been out here in the first place - I heard him say it so I'll still run him even if he is walking away".

One thing to remember is long distance arguments and ejections are not good. Chad warned him to not come out any further and thus, giving him a chance to stay in the game. As Bob Patrino said, Lou probably had to get one more shot in and like the true gutless rat that he is, he did it as he was walking away. Drake heard it and promptly ejected him. All and all, a fairly routine ejection and since it's Pinella's first EJ, he probably got a "mulligan" from the league. Tomorrow's another day....

Now about the hair, I agree with Mr. Hickman - Drake needs to get rid of the mullet. The lettuce is getting pretty thick

Egads, Matt!!! Oregano on pasta primavera?? You need more seasoning training!!..LOL

Serious question Steve, would you call Chris Guccione or Rob Drake "seasoned" umpires? They've been around working MLB games for close to a decade now. No one is saying they're veteran MLB guys (even though they work more games per year than "full-time" guys), but where do you draw the line for "seasoning"? Is there X number of games, ejections, weird situations? Chad worked just about 10 games fewer than the full-timers last year, and has been with his crew since Opening Day this year. According to Retrosheet, he's worked 266 games from 2004-2007- it's not like he worked a Tampa-KC series in September last year for the first time.

35 Ejections for Rob Drake
 

Rob Drake now has over 35 Ejections in his 10 years as an umpire, when called up to do "The Show". That seems like someone with a mission of "Hey, look at me, I can eject the boys up here and there is nothing anyone can do about it."

Rob Drake must really feel like a BIG MAN working "The Show" after ejecting Lou Pinnela behind his back, taking over the call from his fellow "Minor League" umpire who didn't see a reason to eject Lou.

For what I saw during the game, Drake should never be the next ump called up to fill a slot in the MLB Umpires. He blew more than one obvious call in the CUB/White Sox game on Jun 29, 2008.

Stay where you belong Drake, dealing with the "Minors"!

Welcome back Fitump. Still on your anti Drake tirade, eh?

35 ejections in 10 years? 3.5 per year? Sounds pretty lenient.

I didn't say seasoned MLB ump.
Just how long has he been a professional ump?

I believe he's been around long enough to handle himself at first base.
You don't make it to MLB with out a season or two of experience.
And relative to my post Fairchild is seasoned enough to handle his own ejections.
If any MLB ump needs protecting as UES suggested he shouldn't be there

Trust me, Chad can handle business when needed. I still suspect Lou said something that only Rob could hear, resulting in the ejection. Perhaps Rob could have done the mask off "What did you say big guy" routine to see if Lou would charge the plate bit he chose to simply dump him.

This is not Chad Fairchild's first year working in MLB. As of June 29, he was tied for second in the most plate games worked in MLB.

This doesn't happen to "unseasoned" umpires.

The jock sniffers are out defending Rob Drake.

Again, the U.S. version of the meaning of "jock sniffer" must get lost in the Candadian translation. How does defending an umpire's actions (or even criticizing an umpire's actions) constitute jock sniffing?

Okay, so a season or two is what you call "seasoned." That's all I wanted to know is what you considered seasoned. My standard for that designation is much higher than that. It is subjective in nature, then. Everyone has a different idea of what "seasoned" is. I guess my criteria is closer to "grizzled" than to "rookie."

I think that 5 pages of arguing about AAA/MLB umpire is hilarious! Who cares, anyway! It was a great few moments of "show", the fans got their money's worth and TV announcers got to analyze the whole thing. Rob & Fairchild got paid, they will go back to AAA and get called back when needed. Again, who cares? :rolleyes:

Not really MRUMPIRE, how many ejections do you hear about in a year's time?? Across MLB?

Drake had 17 in one year alone.

Then 18 in his other 9 years seems pretty reasonable, doesn't it?

So what? I don't recall one of these. Sounds like he took care of business when needed.

The sun came up today; it will tomorrow - let's move on...

I know you're smart enough to recognize an understatement when you read one, so I don't know why you're playing the literal game.
My point is that any umpire who makes it to MLB is seasoned enough to handle his own ejections.
Enough said

Can't agree more, thanks for guiding us back to the real issue. :cool:

I'm only guessing here, but I'm pretty sure MLB wouldn't tolerate a rogue umpire indiscriminately tossing managers and players for 10 years. The fact is, there is something that can be done about it, and it would have been if the ejections hadn't been deserved. Good grief.

Drake, Guccione and others haven't gone back to AAA in years. They continue to work more MLB games than contracted MLB umpires. It is a disgrace what MLB gets away with.

Not only has Rob gone years without working AAA, I believe I read that Fairchild has been with that crew since the first game of the season.

See! This shows you how much attention I pay to those that have made AAA & The Show. They have their own rules and management idiosyncrasies of which I am not a part of nor do I care about it. I have my own problems with rules, coaches and assignors! :D

To my knowledge, what MLB is doing does not violate the contract so, what is it they are "getting away with"?

It is not as if they are saying: we'll give you $100 and they give them $50 or giving them a veggie burger when they paid for steak. These guys know what the deal is.

Joe in Missouri

Yes, they know what the deal is. Accept what MLB offers or get released. Take the entry level pay, even after 160 games a year for five or more years or get released. Work ten years and have not one year of seniority built up, or get released. Stay a fill-in along with eight or nine others because its cheaper for MLB than to hire the full time umpires they need, or get released.


You're right. They know what the deal is. Management often finds things not covered by CBA's and exploits them until unions gets tired of it. Don't be suprised if the next round of labor talks includes this practice.

Right, that is the deal. They accepted the deal. They knew the deal(or should have) before they went to umpire school.

Yes, it is cheaper. People who run businesses do not like to spend more money, they prefer to spend less money. The same way that I like to spend less money instead of more money.

Joe in Missouri

Sign me up where entry level pay is $300+ per day to eat and sleep PLUS a pro-rated portion of a six figure salary.

Ok
 

Please understand one thing about published umpire ejection numbers:

If there is a bench clearing brawl . . . fist fights . . . dog pile type situation the Home Plate Umpire is credited with any and all ejections. This can certain skew a number.

Regards,

So Drake's inflated ejection numbers indicate the possibility that he may have been the Home Plate Umpire for many brawls, fist fights and dog pile situations. This skews the numbers, but wouldn't it be a good indicator of the lack of game management skills if this were the case?

:-}
 

Steven:

While I think you are taking a devil's advocate position for this discussion I would contend that not all brawls in Major League baseball show any lack of game managment skills.

Let's say that a player slides hard into second base . . . let's say F6 has words with him . . . then they fight.

The double ejection would go against the PU . . . how did his game management skills affect this play?

You'd have to ask Pete Rose and Bud Harrelson.

Yes, for the purposes of the discussion, I was playing devil's advocate. It just seemed curious that his totals were this high, but I don't have the totals for the rest of the league, so I can't really make a fair comparison. Perhaps someone knows these statistics and can list the ejection rankings so we can compare totals.

i watched this live and there is no question that fairchild blew it big time; he didn't have the balls to toss him so drake cleaned up his mess ... when was the last time that a manager ran onto the field arguing a check swing call and didn't get tossed? more senior umps would have tossed him for arguing that call from the dugout for chrissakes! fairchild has been working in the bigs all season long, he should have known better, plus he made drake look badly ... lou was right before he left he shouted at fairchild, "you f*n stink!"

.[/QUOTE]

You're right. They know what the deal is. Management often finds things not covered by CBA's and exploits them until unions gets tired of it. Don't be suprised if the next round of labor talks includes this practice.[/QUOTE]


Here's how the ML value umpires, the 60 or so regular umps don't make combined in one year as much as AROD does.

You're right. They know what the deal is. Management often finds things not covered by CBA's and exploits them until unions gets tired of it. Don't be suprised if the next round of labor talks includes this practice.[/QUOTE]


Here's how the ML value umpires, the 60 or so regular umps don't make combined in one year as much as AROD does.[/QUOTE]

Gee, that is surprising.

Guess what? Brain surgeons make more than hospital cafeteria workers.

By the way, did you know that BIll Gates makes more than the people who answer the phone for Micwosoft Tekinol Suppot?

Major League Umpires make the amount of money that they AGREED to work for. Good grief....cry me a river.

Joe in Missouri

yeahbut AROD has to boink Madonna... blech

It's pocket change compared to what the players make.

Yes! The players make more. THEY are the reason tickets are sold. The umpires are not revenue generators for the league.

Yabut.....how much is he getting paid for it?

I bet if you added up the salaries of all the people boinking Madonna, it would be a heckuva lot more than what A-Rod makes(in his career).

This thread wins the award for "Least worthy to go to 6 pages."

Boinking Madonna? Schwiiiiing! We're not worthy, we're not worthy!

Hey AROD...did you forget that you're, uh, MARRIED?:(

Ummmm, wellllllll.... maybe not....


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8308196?MSNHPHMA

Oh, the New York Post said it. Well then, it must be true!:rolleyes:

As far as I know A-Rod and his wife are getting along fairly well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZgj16giUjI