Mets v Mariners
 

Any opinions on what Rungee did with beltran and manual? I have no problem with saying something to the effect off "stop arguing balls and strikes." maybe with a little more .... umph to it. Or just ignoring it... what ever the preference is. The problem I have is that instead of a quick word it turned into a conversation that got heated... then just before Rungee throws out the new manager for the mets.... He makes contact by stepping at the coach!!!:eek: then throws him out.... any thoughts?

Don't leave the dugout to argue balls and strikes. Runge probably wishes he got rid of him sooner.

Watched the video and all I have to say is they both deserved to go! The announcers BS about "umpire baiting" is full of $hit! Beltran was pi$$ing and moaning at the plate and Runge probably heard enough. If Manuel just stayed in the dugout and kept his mouth shut, it all would have been fine. Both Beltran and Manuel are long running complaining a$$holes anyway. Neither deserve to remain in any game for more than 5 minutes just on general principal! :D

Umpires normally leave their masks on until they have heard something that warrants an ejection. When that happens, the proper course of action is to remove the mask to make the ejection. Beltran probably called Runge a stupid pendejo or something similar. Contrary to popular fan and announcer opinion, umpires are not required to just stand there and take a bunch of crap. If you argue balls and strikes, you're done. If you come out of the dugout to defend a player who was ejected for arguing balls and strikes, you're done too. Very simple. Beltran obviously crossed the line, and Brian sent him packing.

yeah I think its the bump that looks REALLY bad not so much that he ran them.... balls and strikes shouldnt be argued ... I just think that it was poorly handled at least from the appearence of it all.

So, guessing you aren't out to sniff Runge's jock anytime soon? :D


Use more than a word or two to argue balls and strikes, you're done. Leave the dugout to do the same, you're done. Just sayin'...

Well, having both umpired his games as a HS player, and umpired with him on several occasions, I have never known Brian Runge to be a hothead that ejects for no good reason. To the contrary, I find him a bit too tolerant. That is what leads me to believe that Beltran may have said something inappropriate.

Yeah, let's not assume anything? Where did I assume anything? I said "probably." What does that assume? He probably did say something. Odds are that he did (that's what "probably" means). Players all the time cuss umpires under their breath to make the umpire look like the bad guy when they get ejected. You are making a big assumption thinking Beltran was pure as the driven snow and was merely suggesting that Brian was in error. Bull Excrement.

The umpires aren't out there to take a bunch of crap off these overpaid, underworked prima donna athletes. I'm just sayin'...

What if he puts his head down and calls you a stupid MFer? Putting his head down doesn't mean he can stand there and say anything he wants. Guys in the ML don't overreact to a comment or two made with a head down, I'd prefer to assume that Beltran crossed some line and Runge wasn't going to let him get away with it.

Thoughts on the Jerry Manual bump?

After viewing the video, here is what I saw. Pitch was called strike 2, and Beltran didn't agree with the call and he was jawing with Runge. Runge apparently didn't like Beltrans jawboning him, so he took his mask off and engaged Beltran in a little conversation while cleaning the plate off. So far, so good, no EJ and the discussion is not over heated. Then Manual comes out apparently to object to Runge's talking to Beltran. If I'm Brian, I'm telling Manual I am going to talk to anyone I want to. Thats when the situation deteriorated. Beltran then started in on Brian and was tossed.

I probably would have left my mask on and cleaned the plate off while talking to Beltran. Had Runge done that, we might have had a different outcome. The bump on Manual looked incidental and not on purpose to me.

And neither should you or anyone else that wasn't privy to the conversation. That was my point.

I think you are probably right. Beltran should probably be suspended for that, but it most likely won't happen. Manuel, also, for making a poor situation worse.

And Runge for making contact with Manuel?

Okay, I've heard enough about the phantom "bump." I've watched the video 5 or 6 times now, from start to finish. After Brian cleaned the plate, he stood up to walk back behind the plate only to find Manuel between Beltran and the catcher. Manuel had no business out there whatsoever. His rat was arguing balls and strikes, so as head of rats he felt it was his duty to bring his ancient butt out there to argue. He is the one initiating contact with Runge by getting in his personal space. You don't get up in someone's face and expect to get away without a bit of contact.

Then, after a lengthy arguement in which Runge was his extra-patient usual self, Manuel started to walk away, still in the ballgame. Then, for some reason, as Runge didn't say a word, Manuel starts back at Runge and gets right up into his grill, nose-to-nose. Then Runge appears to distance himself and walk around Manuel to the right. That's when Manuel tried to block Runge off and a little contact occurred just before Runge gave him the heave-ho.

I saw no agressive bump or contact initiated by Runge, and I looked hard to find it. Fans see what they want to see, and judge situations by their emotions, and NOT by the facts.

The real culprit here was Jerry Manuel for leaving the bench. Beltran was going to get to say his peace and get back in the box, which is more rope than I would give him. Runge was trying to be civil with him, even though he kept running his mouth. Beltran got run for continuing arguing in Runge's face after the Manuel ejection. It wasn't really about balls and strikes at this point, it was about stupid ballplayers thinking that the can just do whatever they want to the umpires without penalty.

I was listening to the radio when this happened. The announcers, Mariners employees, talked as if it were Manuel who initiated the bump.

Interesting that many think now it was Runge who initiated it. Maybe Mets fans?

Ria

Well, I was a very happy M's fan, (not much to cheer about this season), so was in a great mood.

Did we see the same play? IMO, Classic baiting by the umpire, yeah the batter said something in a "non show-n up way". Silence him or toss him, like some have said. But to step up remove the mask, get in the guys face and give an axx chewing, IMO is outta line..

The manager probably couldn't believe his eyes, and came out, not to argue balls and strikes, but to give a deserved Axx chewing himself, for baiting his player. I reacted the same way when I saw Rungee's antics, told my bride "uh oh, here we go, this guys outta line"...

"No, or incidental contact", your kidding right? That my friend was a classic chest bump that would get a player fined and suspended in a heart beat.

The player in return, admitted that he then lost it when the umpire bumped his skipper, said it was by the far the maddest he'd ever been on a ballfield

Unbelievable, if this umpire isn't reprimanded, fined, suspended, I'll poop and fall right over backwards in it...wow.

I think Rungee fell into the dark abyss every umpire fights and strives to keep out of. IMO an umpire must maintain a higher standard than what I saw.

First of all, Beltran did not speak in a "non show-n up way." Where do you get this? He turned his head back to the umpire and looked right at him and began arguing balls and strikes. HE initiated the conversation, not the umpire. When you look back at the umpire and argue, that is showing him up. Players are taught to say their little BS remarks while facing away from the umpire, not to look right at him, making their displeasure obvious to all. He kept it up for a good 10 seconds before Brian had had enough. At that point Brian proceeded to brush the plate, a manuever that most umpires remove their masks to do. Beltran continued to talk sh!t while Brian brushed off the plate. Then like magic, Manuel appeared on the scene, beligerently blocking Brian's pathway.

The umpire has the right to talk to any player he wants to, especially when that player starts the confrontation, as Beltran clearly did. The manager has no right to come out on the umpire, and certainly not to deliver an "Axx chewing." Do you let coaches chew you out? Wow. You come out on me and try to chew me out, you had better be wearing asbestos underwear, because I'll light ya a$$ up! Brain gave Manuel every chance to stay in the game, and Beltran was still in the game at that point.

Classic? He barely brushed past him as he was about to run him. Manuel is the one who got in his path. What, the umpire is supposed to say excuse me and go around the d-head manager now? Look at the play closely, Manuel stepped right into Runge's path. Like I said, I watched this thing over and over, just to make sure I saw what happened.

Wow, how charitable of the little CSer.:rolleyes:

Get ready to poop, because he didn't do a damn thing out of line. Two clowns got in his business, and he showed great restraint in not running them both sooner.

Wow, I need some of what you're smokin'.:eek:

By the way, Jerry Manuel does not agree. He said he would not want Brian Runge to be fined or suspended, that a simple apology would be fine with him. They both shook hands and were cordial with each other at their next plate meeting. I think the Met's new skipper knows that it wasn't all Brian's fault like everyone is trying to make it seem.

It WAS his fault.... Brain STEPPED to him why would you step at someone to eject them.... you should turn as to makes sure your not going to hit them with your body or your hand.... thats what I have been taught at the camps I have been to and its been on evaluations. so I think trying to defend brian as far as the bump goes is a loosing arguement. However both the manager and beltran were legit ejections

This quibbling is a little silly, given that we have only a fraction of the facts. Why not see what the league does? Unless Runge is fined or suspended, I think the proper conclusion is that he handled the situation correctly.

I don't suppose all the details will ever be made public. So to reach a detailed conclusion would be whistling in the dark.

Apparently Runge apologized to Manuel yesterday for his actions.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06262008...uel_117304.htm

First I see beltran turn his head, look right at Rungee and start jawing.(not looking down) it was obvious to the announcers that he didnt like the call. However Rungee then tried to one up Beltran by speaking to him(mask off) BEFORE cleaning the plate.
Manuel should have went earlier. IMO

Am I the only one who thinks if Brian had cleaned the plate THEN spoken to Beltran, Beltran would have gotten the negative press for being aggressive/whiny? IMO, Brian's unmasking, then talking to Beltran, then cleaning the plate is what made him look aggressive, even though his initial intent was to tell Beltran to shut up and keep playing ball. Not to defend Beltran or Manuel at all, because Manuel had NO business leaving the dugout, but despite Brian's intentions I think he LOOKS bad to everybody but umpires who know what he was doing (ie the idiots I heard on XM yesterday who said there was no excuse for him to take off his mask and talk to Beltran because he "wasn't being shown up".)

Well everyone, I didn't loose any sleep, pay or games because of this whole thing. The concerned parties "made nice-nice" and the world moves on! More that I can say for this thread of 5 pages of useless arguing! Get on with your lives, I'm sure that you all have games that you can discuss with the rest of us.

He actually said that? Sad.

Guess he's not ever upset about losing. Might explain the Mets current problems.

Sorry guys but I saw the argument on tv, and Runge clearly bumped Manuel. I wasn't impressed with any of their behaviour, and I would suggest a slight pay cut for Runge and a one game suspension for both Manuel and Beltran. That way they can all recieve a consequence but have a chance to move on and get on with baseball the next day.

I think a pay cut would be a horrible idea.

Besides, the umpire's union would never go for a pay cut.

Skipper said shut up and play Gilligan
 

Event: Complaints about bad calls after every close pitch.
Error 1: Clear the matter up by dusting the plate and giving back some lip service.
Error 2: Eject the biggest yardbird immediately for arguing balls and strikes.
Error 3: Stand firm, ignore the yardbirds and tighten their strike zone.
Error 4: Ignore the CS as much as possible and return to your duties asap.
Which would Gilligan choose?

Agree with what you saw
 

Disagree with your conclusion.
Yeah thats it, anger management lessons will fix it.
So just how much is the rate for a chest bump or an unmasked glare?
Only poor people think everyone has to pay for every mistake they make.
Only rich people make mistakes all the time and get away with it too.
Only parent, administrators, judge and CEOs decide fair punishment.
But position in life or money does always equal moral ineptitude.
Sometimes the best discipline was knowing you made a mistake and should attempt to never do it again.
Can you accept an apology?

fyi...

Runge was suspended for one game.

Manuel and Beltran were fined.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releas...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Okay, I finally got to see the other angle, from a 45 degree angle behind Manuel and facing Brian, and saw the bump. From the angle in the video I had previously watched, which was from straight behind Manuel, and made it look as if Manuel had stepped into Brian's path. Now that I have seen the full speed, true video of what happened, I do agree that Brian bumped Manuel intentionally. I think the one game suspension is plenty, however. No fines or levies or pay cuts. He shouldn't have done it, but I have seen much worse go unpunished, especially from players.

Manual and Beltran were FINED?? $500 and $400 respectively? Give me a friggin break, they make that much per minute. Looks to me like MLB threw Runge under the bus. Now don't get me wrong, I feel Brian didn't handle himself very well during this incident, but the punishments need to be fair.

Maybe Runge was suspended with pay!