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-   -   Batter Steps Out of Box w/o Requesting Time... (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/45518-batter-steps-out-box-w-o-requesting-time.html)

andrewm Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:48pm

Batter Steps Out of Box w/o Requesting Time...
 
USSSA 14U State Tournament. Runners on 1st and 3rd, pitcher taking a while to get the sign, batter steps out of the box without requesting time. PU doesn't say anything and doesn't move. Catcher doesn't move. Pitcher eventually decides to pitch. He begins his delivery to the plate and stops right before the ball is released. I'm thinking, that's gotta be a balk. PU says "nope, the batter wasn't in the box." Offensive coach asks, "ok, if that's the case, what would have been the call if the pitcher threw a strike?" PU says "strike." Huh? I sure thought it had to be one way or the other. The batter stepped out without time being granted. Live ball. Am I missing something?

bob jenkins Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:51pm

As a general statement, the batter can't induce a balk. Under FED rules, if the batter steps out, the pitch will be a strike. i THINK USSSA plays under OBR -- so the pitch is called on its own merits -- but if the batter isn't there to help me define the zone, ...

TwoBits Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewm
USSSA 14U State Tournament. Runners on 1st and 3rd, pitcher taking a while to get the sign, batter steps out of the box without requesting time. PU doesn't say anything and doesn't move. Catcher doesn't move. Pitcher eventually decides to pitch. He begins his delivery to the plate and stops right before the ball is released. I'm thinking, that's gotta be a balk. PU says "nope, the batter wasn't in the box." Offensive coach asks, "ok, if that's the case, what would have been the call if the pitcher threw a strike?" PU says "strike." Huh? I sure thought it had to be one way or the other. The batter stepped out without time being granted. Live ball. Am I missing something?

USSSA uses OBR as its basic rules set:

6.02b: The batter shall not leave his position in the batter's box after the pitcher comes to set position or starts his windup. PENALTY: If the pitcher pitches, the umpire shall call ball or strike as the case may be.
COMMENT: If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a set position with a runner on, he does not go through with his ptich because the bater has stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a balk.

andrewm Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:58pm

Well there you have it. PU got it right. No balk.

Thanks.

MrUmpire Mon Jun 16, 2008 01:10pm

The changed wording in 6.02 in the 2008 rulebook has some leagues in a quandry. Gone is the language that described a "do-over" if the batter stepped out and the pitcher "balked".

In it's place is language described as for MLB use only and alternative language described as for National Baseball Associations (Minor Leagues) only.

Which rule do amateur leagues follow?

chuckfan1 Mon Jun 16, 2008 01:23pm

Well...
 
From what you said, if F1 is taking a while to pitch, that internal clock inside you ticking, and the batter steps out, Id probably give him the benefit. As long as this hasnt happened much during the game. Call the timeout. Why pick up the dirty end of the stick?
But let him know he needs to request it next time. After all how often does it happen where the batter does step out without verbally asking for time, or at least putting a hand up?
Maybe he put a hand up and you didnt see it?
I rarely have seen this happen, where the batter just steps out without some form of request for time.
If everything is normal, F1 is not taking long, and the batter steps out, call the pitch. Anywhere near the zone, strike it.
As for the balk, the others have nailed it.

Rich Ives Mon Jun 16, 2008 02:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire
The changed wording in 6.02 in the 2008 rulebook has some leagues in a quandry. Gone is the language that described a "do-over" if the batter stepped out and the pitcher "balked".

In it's place is language described as for MLB use only and alternative language described as for National Baseball Associations (Minor Leagues) only.

Which rule do amateur leagues follow?


What removed? It's still there in the on-line rules at MLB.com under 6.02(b)

The following two paragraphs are additional material for Rule 6.02(b) Comment, for Major League play only:
If pitcher delays once the batter is in his box and the umpire feels that the delay is not justified he may allow the batter to step out of the box momentarily.
If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position” with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.”


If the pitcher pitches the umpire is to call the pitch a "ball" or a "strike".

The automatic strike ONLY applies if the batter REFUSES to get into the batter's box AFTER being ordered to do so.

MrUmpire Mon Jun 16, 2008 04:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives
What removed? It's still there in the on-line rules at MLB.com under 6.02(b)

The following two paragraphs are additional material for Rule 6.02(b) Comment, for Major League play only:
If pitcher delays once the batter is in his box and the umpire feels that the delay is not justified he may allow the batter to step out of the box momentarily.
If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position” with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.”


If the pitcher pitches the umpire is to call the pitch a "ball" or a "strike".

The automatic strike ONLY applies if the batter REFUSES to get into the batter's box AFTER being ordered to do so.

Bad choices of words...I should have used "changed". You should have posted both new sections, not just that which pertains to MLB only.

The following two paragraphs are additional material for Rule 6.02(b) Comment, for Major League play only:

If pitcher delays once the batter is in his box and the umpire feels that the delay is not justified he may allow the batter to step out of the box momentarily.

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position” with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.”


The following paragraph is additional material for Rule 6.02(b) Comment, for National Association play (in lieu of the additional two paragraphs, above, that apply to Major League play):

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position” with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, the umpire shall not call a balk. The umpire shall call an automatic strike if Rule 6.02(d)(1) calls for such sanction.

Rich Ives Mon Jun 16, 2008 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire
Bad choices of words...I should have used "changed". You should have posted both new sections, not just that which pertains to MLB only.

The following two paragraphs are additional material for Rule 6.02(b) Comment, for Major League play only:

If pitcher delays once the batter is in his box and the umpire feels that the delay is not justified he may allow the batter to step out of the box momentarily.

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position” with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.”


The following paragraph is additional material for Rule 6.02(b) Comment, for National Association play (in lieu of the additional two paragraphs, above, that apply to Major League play):

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position” with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, the umpire shall not call a balk. The umpire shall call an automatic strike if Rule 6.02(d)(1) calls for such sanction.


And to apply 6.02(d)(1) the batter would have to step out with BOTH feet.

I don't know how many orgs use which rules. (LL didn't put in the MiLB version.)

canadaump6 Mon Jun 16, 2008 07:25pm

The Official Rules of Baseball make it very unclear what is to be done when the pitcher delivers after the batter has stepped out. The rule that calls for a "redo" seems to only cover the situation of the batter stepping out of the box after the pitcher has come set or started his motion. It doesn't cover what to call if the batter has stepped out before the pitcher begins to pitch. Basically you have to assume that the pitcher is responsible for waiting until the batter gets into the box, and if the batter steps out in between pitches the pitcher must wait. Pitch the ball and I call it a quick pitch.

Tom H. Mon Jun 16, 2008 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6
The Official Rules of Baseball make it very unclear what is to be done when the pitcher delivers after the batter has stepped out. The rule that calls for a "redo" seems to only cover the situation of the batter stepping out of the box after the pitcher has come set or started his motion. It doesn't cover what to call if the batter has stepped out before the pitcher begins to pitch. Basically you have to assume that the pitcher is responsible for waiting until the batter gets into the box, and if the batter steps out in between pitches the pitcher must wait. Pitch the ball and I call it a quick pitch.

Are you reading all the posts before posting a reply? If the Batter steps out and the pitcher stops his delivery because of it then it is 'nothing'. I will remind the batter to stay in the box and the pitcher to pitch (sometimes).
If the batter is dumb enough to step out with out me calling time (as someone else said) he removes my reference points (up and down) for a strike. And it SURE looked good to me!
Bottom line, if F1 delivers the ball, TIME has not been called (By ME) I am moving to the next strike number on my indiclicker!

Hmmmm......


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