Bob Jenkins at the Plate
 

Frequent contributor (and umpire God) Bob Jenkins has the plate for the IHSA 3A championship game Saturday, Noon CT.

Link up:

http://www.ihsa.org/video/index.htm

Congratulations, Bob.

Bob, congratulations
 

That is indeed an honor, and obviously you are as good as your posts here, except when we disagree :).

Have fun and enjoy the day, like we hope Tee did.

Well,
 

jk:

Had a great time doing the Oregon 6A Championship game.

It is always interesting when you have a three umpire crew that have never worked together prior to the "big" game. But U3 and the PU were just great guys.

We had little to do since there were few base runners (i.e. we were never in a situation that required a reverse rotation).

http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonl...seball_ti.html

Regards,

Tim

Edit:

By the way: I got a 9.75 from umpires watching the game for my famous "reverse spin, double Sulkow".

T

Tim -

You probably got your score dragged down by the East German judge.

Always an honor, congrats Bob you deserve it I'm sure.

Should be lots of fun, hopefully have a good game to umpire.

Pretty neat that they are streaming the games. MS is still behind the times, but we did start getting the games on live public TV this year for the first time.

Thanks
David

Only a 9.75, must have been the Russian judge ... (g)

Looked like a good game from the fans perspective.

Thanks
David

I'd blame the Frog.

He just booted Shane Blair, the catcher from Rock Falls.
You have to do what you have to do.

NM 2A championship
 

I am PU for the game

http://nmaa.tv/loving_hs.htm
click on the baseball tab

Hey, what's up with not announcing the umpires.

I would have liked to see you guys on the field for the anthem ...

Is this FED rules? or other?

I kept hearing air horns on the video and of course those are illegal in FED.

Thanks
David

Tee, good to see a poster from here in action. A few questions:

-I don't think I saw you point fair on the play starting at 28 seconds.
-You seem to like the "safe! safe!" call.
-At 2 minutes 52 seconds how come you made the out call on the tag and not your plate partner?

I'm not trying to nitpick or show you up. Just looking to learn from a veteran with some video clips.

The play starting at 28 seconds is a ground ball up the middle. You must mean the play starting at 8 seconds or so -- a ball down the right field line. I expected a signal there, but it's not a huge deal. Tee can tell us if he wishes he would've signaled there.

U1 made the call on the tag because the runner was past the 45' line (start of the running lane). Before the 45' line, the tag belongs to the PU, afterwards, to U1.

Missed it. When did it happen?

canada
 

The first ball that was hit to right was fair by about 15' when it started out. I saw no reason to signal fair . . . because I did not know what the RF corner looked like at ground level I decided to go. What I did do wrong was NOT signal "SAFE" afer the ball bounced off the fence.

I have always "sold" close "safe" calls with a double "SAFE." Just a habit from many, many years of working.

I thought the "out on the tag" call was obviously my call as the BR had passed the 45' line. Also I looked at the PU before making the call and he "nodded" as I took the call.

My eval was good.

When asked "why did you go out on the ground ball to right field?" my answer was:

"Three umpires and one runner . . . why wouldn' I go out?"

I was given highest marks for hustle, judgement, mechanics, fraternization, timing and rules knowledge. My only "ding" was for "leaving the infield too quickly at the end of an inning."

Good crew and good game.

Regards,

My only comment would be directed at the called third strike at the 3:04 mark.

Oh, my!

Ehh! 8.25! Here in the East, we like a bit more crispness with these moves! Work on your balance point a bit more.

Nice Job, Tim! :D

Was that because players were milling around and something could have happened?

Correct
 

Example that was given:

Batter hits a high fly to left field. As the B/R rounds first base he and F3 start chipping at each other.

If the base umpire has vacated to the outfield there is no quick ending to the issue.

Regards,

It happened in the bottom of the fifth inning. Blair took a called third strike for the third out, and then said something he shouldn't have.

Tee..
 

.....I guess you dont get dinged for it because you have Senior Veteran Grandfather Status due to your "many many years", but should really consider losing the double-safe mechanic. Does that mean he is safe twice? Or he wasnt just safe, but really really safe? He is either safe or not.
Seems like I saw it a couple times on there. Which means it loses its emphasis the more you bust it out.
....And I concur with the one guy about that called 3rd strike at the end. We all miss a pitch, but thats a "gross" miss. And in a championship game? Not pretty.

Eh, it's not that big of a deal. I had a check swing sent down to me that would've ended a HS regional final 2 weeks ago. I safed it THREE times. Of course, the only evaluation I really get is the one I give to myself. And, yes, I was mahvelous.

Who cares? I doubt very much if anyone was confused by the call. I saw Tim Welke do the same thing at first base yesterday.

i concur.

MA is waaaaaaaaay behind on the technology front. i don't think my game yesterday was even on the radio. that is the least of my gripes, though. at the top of the list is the three, count 'em THREE, bottles of water they provided for the 3 man crew when the temperature on the field at game time was 108. oh well.

I would have said: "Thanks, that should be enough for me. Where's the water for my partners?" :eek:

The one that was 4 feet outside?:D

Everybody misses one sometime.

~Sigh~
 

" . . . but should really consider losing the double-safe mechanic . . ."

I will pass on your advice, thanks.

Regards,

I have to agree with Tee on this one - "sigh"

Thanks
David

Rules reference, please.

I think you are confusing FED rules in other sports with baseball. It is not technically illegal to use an air horn or any other form of an artificial sound maker.

Peace

Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that's funny!

(Still laughing from before) and your championship looks, how?

You are correct, thanks for the heads up.


thanks
David

Lose the 'double safe' mechanic?? Not a chance. I may use the 'triple safe' in it's place.

Tee, isn't one of the ADVANTAGES of the 3 man is being able to have someone go out on every fly ball? What was the evaluator talking about on this one?

Here in Orygone!
 

"Tee, isn't one of the ADVANTAGES of the 3 man is being able to have someone go out on every fly ball? What was the evaluator talking about on this one?"

Oregon uses "Modified Oregon Mechanics" (3 man for this game).

"Modified Oregon Mechanics" closely follow those mechanics as prescribed by the CCA manual.

The CCA manual has notes that precludes umpires "going out on every fly ball" by stating that a read should be done first. The PBUC manual encourages an umpire to be out on all fly balls -- "Modified Oregon" wants a read done.

All that being said the ball was not a fly ball but a hard ground ball. Since there was no "catch/no catch" or "converging fielders" the evaluator saw no reason to go out. Once I explained "why" I went out he was totally in agreement.

As I noted earlier I do wish I had given a "safe" signal after the ball bounced away from the wall.

Regards,

So when U1 moves to watch the B/R touch first, the eyes in the back of his head are to watch the ball bounce near fans, fences, etc?

Chris, we have 3 warm bodies, I say let's send one out to cover that ball heading toward DBT and the fans, just to be safe.

I was watching Bob Jenkins work that plate game, and he did a great job. His whole crew worked VERY well together and it truly was umpired as a "championship game". The ejection was quick and was the result of the batter using a poor choice of words to express his dislike about that called third strike. Of course, he had no comment on the first two strikes, which he also missed.
Oh, the ballpark food was good, too!

JJ

Chris,

Some fields have blind areas in the corners that a line drive or hard ground ball base hit could get into. If we have three umpires and no runner why take a chance? Go out far enough so U1 never losses site of the ball. PU can easily pick up the touch and potential play back into 1B.

Of course this needs to be discussed during the pre-game.

Thank you for the reply Tee. I will bring up in my association the idea of base umpire calling the tag/no tag at the 45 foot lane.

Chris, that wasn't me who wore the wristbands. I would die before I ever did that.

Ozzy..
 

Once again you show your true colors..
As far as my championships? 1st and 2nd round this year, and Orange County Calif High School All Star Game...championships?..maybe next year. But hey, thanks for asking.

Chris, in Tee's case, he determined there was a valid reason to go out on that ground ball to the outfield. Normally, you are correct, there is no need to go out on a routine base hit. Note the word , "routine". I'd rather err on the side of misjudging something as "trouble", rather then judging it as "routine" and having it turn into a problem. Just my preference, do as you wish.

For me, it depends on the field.

If it's enclosed with no fence gaps and no chance of spectator interference, I'm signaling fair and staying in the infield (either rotating home or sliding depending on the number and location of baserunners).

If there's a DBT line or a bad fence or a chance of interference, I'm going with it. It's far more credible having an umpire on it rather than having a plate umpire calling something from 300 feet or more away. We'll talk about this when we walk the field as part of our pregame.

Tee can address exactly why he found it necessary to follow the ball. I think it would be instructive and would give us his line of reasoning, so I hope he replies.

Rich,
 

This may take a little time:

We had an extensive pre-game over lunch and discussed many, many things.

Because of state training we DO NOT go out on all fly balls. (PBUC goes out on all fly balls with three man crew and CCA does not). At our pre-game we talked extensively about going out when needed especially if the number of umpires left were equal to or greater than the runners.

We were told that the field was fully enclosed. The only areas of concern were the tarp area and both bullpens.

Because of the tight game schedule we DID NOT walk around the field (we did do this at all other local playoff games) and check for “difficult” areas.

Now the play and my thinking:

The play was in the top of the first inning in the Oregon 6A State Championship Game. The ball was hit hard by a right handed batter and it squirreled between F3 and the first base bag. It was clearly NOT a fair/foul type ball.

As I turned to pause and read I saw the ball slicing towards the RF corner. I also noticed at that instant that there was a banner hanging from the inside of the fence. I determined at that time that with a single batter runner and two additional umpires that it would look extremely bad if some how, when that rapidly moving ground ball hit the bottom support of the fence, if it hopped up behind the banner there would need to be a call.

I decided at that time this was a potential "trouble ball."

I decided to go out at that point.

One runner. Two umpires. It seemed logical too me.

Again, I WISH I had given a “SAFE” sign when the ball bounced off the fence and came back to the fielder. Other than that I have no reason to question the decision I made.

Question to all of you:

Was what I did "bad"?

The 20 or so High School umpires in attendence seemed satidfied that I made a decision and stuck with it (there were also comments about my speed surprising them since I am a "Fat and OLD" man).

What are the negative possibilities tied to my going out (please note the PU did fill in behind me as mechanics dictate)?

You know I'm not questioning your decision here - I just knew it would show that there was a reason you went and that all of the back-seat umpires who question such things should just listen :D

I agree: Bases empty? No brainer, go with the ball. If two umpires can't handle one runner, then they don't belong on this game. If there's a tarp and bullpens and banners that can cause problems, well, then just go.

Now, to continue, if it was R1+R2, would you have gone? (I find this question more interesting actually, since going on your play is really a no-brainer once you now the bases were empty).

Makes sense to me... all you are giving up is YOUR look at a touch of first base, an F3 OBS, or a long round and retreat to 1st with a snap throw behind the runner.

Yes, those things may be more likely to happen than a ball in a banner, but they are all things that PU should be able to see coming up the line or have time to get in position for. The ball in the banner, not so sure your PU would be looking for that if you came in...

I don't know that there's ever a problem going out so long as well tell our partner loudly enough on the way.

Tee,

I think you made the right decision, as there was potential trouble with the banner.

The only negative is that you stayed out, when it would have looked sharp to hustle back in foul ground towards home, but that's a helluva lot of running for an old fat guy!:p

By the way - "fat, old guys" never concern me. Fat young do however.

Whew, I'm safe then.

Tee

NOt bad at all. Looks like it was a trouble ball, you have two other umpires who can handle everything else, you went out and made certain.

IMO, that's "good" umpiring, not bad.

When in doubt, we always tell our guys go out. There are always more problems in games when the umpire does NOT go out than with the umpire going out and making certain.

Thanks
David

Same here! :eek:

I'm alright then too, I guess!:eek:

I know the mechanic, as I have worked many 3 and 4 man games over the many years I umpired.

I actually misread what Tee said:

"Again, I WISH I had given a “SAFE” sign when the ball bounced off the fence and came back to the fielder."

I misread it as Tee wishing he had came back into the field. It was a Senior Moment. Early onset of Mad Cow :eek: :) .

Why would the evaluator laugh in your face? Because that particular line of reasoning isn't on his little "checklist?"

I guess we'll agree to disagree, then. U1 is more useful going out there than watching a touch of first. The plate umpire can easily do that.

How could he have "mucked up a read?" It was a GROUND ball. There was nothing, really, to read there.

They work NCAA mechanics in Oregon. That is allowed, actually expected.

Hmmm,
 

I was out on the play when the RF lost the ball in the sun @ 1:56 I am just not in frame.

In fact I stayed out until we recognized the F9 was not seriously injured on the play.

Regards,

Well,
 

Chris, I don't have to justify anything to anyone.

Someone asked "why did you go out?" and I answered how my thinking went.

I will now leave the thread: some think I did alright some think I am a hack.

That is the gamble anyone takes that posts a video of a game where they worked.

BTW: The Pac-10 evaluator at the game had no problem that I went out.

Regards,

UES, I happen to believe that Tim made the correct choice in going out on that trouble ball. We may have to agree to disagree. You do what you need to do to advance in your area, I will do what I need to do in mine. Best of luck to you and take care.

Props to Tee for posting a video of himself in action and accepting comments and questions regarding his performance.

I travel almost full time for business (somehow I've still found the time to do 45 games this year, which is amazing considering the miles I've flown). I've been to Portland a few times and Tim and I have eaten dinner and had drinks together. I watched him work the plate on a playoff game last season (or was it two years ago?). I was even a guest at his association banquet. I consider him a friend.

But we've disagreed in the past and we aren't shy about disagreeing. This time, I don't disagree. He knew what he was going to do on a ball down the line before it was hit. He went. I've pregamed this with my partners in the past. It's no big deal.

I respect those who do disagree civilly, but UES can go pound sand. He's just a troll. Probably one of those that has been banned here before.

It is allowed in the CCA book. Here, it's often not used in less-than-NCAA levels, even when otherwise working CCA mechanics.

Sounds like a when in Rome deal. We are strongly encourage to go from the middle especially on balls hit to the wall.

Props to Tee for providing video of himself in action and accepting comments on his work.

Hmmm,
 

We are required to go out from the inside on a ball to the wall (mine was obviously a home run).

Oregon Modified (as noted several times above is CCA) trains this as an "advanced mechanic" and we were expected to use it in the state finals.

msavakinas sorry for this question:

How old are you? It seems ingrained in my dullered head that you are 18 or 19, is this correct?

Regards