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Quote:

Originally Posted by jicecone

Early in my career I would shy away from partners that I felt were not up to par, good, horrible or just plain sucked and also ask not to be paired up in later games.

As I became more experienced I looked at it as an oppurtunity to pass on what I have learned and even took the time after games to back up what I was saying, with rules interpretations and others books that I always carried in the car.

I actually witnessed many officials improving because someone took time to help them. There is just so much to learn and some think it happens over the night, but it takes time. During that time, making mistakes was part of the lessons.

So, it is easy to find fault with what your partners do or do not do but, you are a team out there during the good and BAD times. Anyone can take credit for only the good things the team does but helping the team to improve is also a responsibilty each one of us have. Wether our partner is a rising star or a Smitty that has been around for ever. Old dogs CAN learn new trickes, I have seen it happen.

I would call my assignor and let them know about Smitty or Johnnie but, I would ask him to schedule some other games with him so I could followup with a lesson. Maybe a game less intense if applicable but I would always followup.

I realize some do not want to take on that role as a teacher, but it always worked for me and I think it's a responsibilty that more experienced officials should take on, to pass on to those that will fill our shoes.

I agree with many of the points that you have made. I too remember those who took the time to give a few pointers and advice (even a couple of times only via email). Of course, I was always (or at least tried to be) open to what I was receiving and truely had a great desire to improve (THAT has not changed).
Now that I have a few more games / clinics behind me, I too try to help my partner get better. I only have one rule: that partner MUST be receptive to what I 'have' for him. If I hear any kind of comment or statement that indicates an unwillingness to even listen to what I may have, I stop, shake his hand and leave.

An example would be when my HS game did not happen because one team did not show up, I decided to stop by a game on my way home (good school/program) and see who was working. The two guys working that day were only 2nd or 3rd year members of the Unit. When the BU noticed me watching, came over between innings he asked " you got anything for me" so I figured he would be receptive. I asked him if the BR had touched first base on that single to the out field. "I don't know" was the response. "That's your touch" I said. His response: "I don't think so!" "that is the PU....he doesn't have any thing else to do" (on the play he did not pivot and never took his eyes off the ball).
On that note I was gone. Don't think he has yet to get a play-off game or even a Varsity game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Sometimes it is a shocker when you find out you're doing something wrong. Initially it can be hard to be told to do something a different way. As an example, I worked a kiddieball game with a 1st year umpire who was wearing a ballbag (he was doing bases). I politely recommended he take it off and he said something like "meh nobody cares". I said nothing more about it, but once the game began he took it off on his own free will.

Tom, I would have had a bit more patience with this less experienced official. Give him a chance to change his attitude- afterall, he probably doesn't want to be a bad umpire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Sometimes it is a shocker when you find out you're doing something wrong. Initially it can be hard to be told to do something a different way.

Tom, I would have had a bit more patience with this less experienced official. Give him a chance to change his attitude- afterall, he probably doesn't want to be a bad umpire.

Inexperienced umpires have no business copping an attitude with veteran umpires who are trying to help. A rookie or 2nd/3rd/4th year umpire should be like a sponge, absorbing everything his superiors (in ability) have to say, and not give smart aleck retorts when given instruction on how to improve. The good umpire prospects are the ones who keep their eyes and ears open and their mouths shut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yeah, they do Steve.
Just like the young bull moose, displaying the antlers in his first rut.
Whether they learn from the first gentle *combat* or from the following harder confrontations, it's quite a natural "show".

Eventually the young moose learns or has a perpetual headache, if not worse. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/ti...smiley-042.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Nobody has to bow down to another umpire just because they are older or more experienced. Respect has to be earned.

Canada, respect is earned on the field, not in the parking lot or on a internet board expressing 'opinions'.

After every game I do, whether with an 'old vet' or a young "up and comer", I ask them to give me their 2 cents about my game. If I've worked with someone before I will ask them to concentrate on a particular thing I want to work on. I try to learn something from everyone I work with. I see things that I would like to add to my game, and I see things I would never do. I NEVER give anyone any advice unless I'm asked to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Steve the whole keeping one's mouth shut comments are getting old. Nobody has to bow down to another umpire just because they are older or more experienced. Respect has to be earned.

Did you notice how Tom added emphasis to the young umpires comment? It was rude and uncalled for to ask for input and then argue about the input he'd received. I'd have been done with him myself.

Tim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Steve the whole keeping one's mouth shut comments are getting old. Nobody has to bow down to another umpire just because they are older or more experienced. Respect has to be earned.

I would only remind that it was not my opinion that he disputed but rather accepted 2 man mechanics. Anyone is welcome to disagree with or debate my opinion (even though they are wrong :D ) any time. The BU in my post flatly told me that I was wrong and by inference that he already knew what the mechanic was.

I would ask you, Was he correct?

He left you with two options, Tom. You could have found the red book on two man mechanics and shown him the error of his ways, or done exactly what you did depending on his demeanor. Knowing you as well as I do, I have to believe that you did the right thing in this situation. It's old news, but you really can't make a horse drink.................

Tim.

Quote:

I would only remind that it was not my opinion that he disputed but rather accepted 2 man mechanics. Anyone is welcome to disagree with or debate my opinion (even though they are wrong ) any time. The BU in my post flatly told me that I was wrong and by inference that he already knew what the mechanic was.

I would ask you, Was he correct?

My post was addressed to Steve, but regardless, this umpire was not correct. I guess I would have had to be there to know the situation, but from your description it sounded like this umpire was naive rather than ignorant.

Quote:

Why should age have anything to do with the dialogue between umpires?

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Why should age have anything to do with the dialogue between umpires?

I meant young to the trade, not young in years. In any vocation there's a certain amount of respect that's given to others senior in their job. The respect should be implied by their years of service. I would put to you that respect isn't earned, it's either there or lost by a show of consistent incompetency. You do as you wish in your career, and continue to expound to those senior to you that they must earn your respect. See how far it gets you.

Tim.

Nuff said.
Contest over.