Get the call right
 

On judgment calls when working baseball on the plate or bases, I see the play, make my judgment and then announce the results. Occasionally my judgment will be incorrect.

I do not announce, I take that back, the runner touched the base two milliseconds before F/3 possessed the ball.

I made my judgment, announced it and move on.

Occasionally ... immediately and before I make a judgment I will ask my partner very loud "was he on the base or was there a tag (on pulled foot or swipe tag).
I receive an answer, typically yes/no he was/wasn't or yes/no on the tag.
I then make my judgment and announce it. It works pretty good.

Reading posts on nearly every subject people are constantly injecting the advice "get the call right".

I would think everyone's intention is to get the call right from the beginning.
The constant advice of "get the call right" always makes me wonder why people automatically assume most umpires intentions are anything but getting the call right.

Getting the rules right is a different subject. Getting the call right is probably everyones goal.

Every rule book I read says " judgment calls are final".

Nowhere have I found in the rules anything pertaining to "all judgment calls are final, unless someone wants you to reconsider and/or get additional input after the fact so your judgment jives with what others want"

Can anyone provide me a rule citation that permits changing judgment calls?

My intention is always to make the correct judgment and after I know I missed one, I analyze what I probably did wrong and make a good effort to not do it again.

My rant is over .... and that is final.

what?

bobby - look at at it this way.

As the OP said, it's over.

ok.

Once you gain more experience, you will also gain more confidence in making the correct "judgement call."

At that point, you will also understand that indeed, your judgement is final, and there will not be a need to entertain any discussions, about your judgement. Those "someones" that persist otherwise, well as Carl recently said. AMF.

adios my friend.

If I had a buck for every time a partner thought he seen that the foot was on the bag but wasn't! :rolleyes:

jicecone, who are these "someones" that you speak of, what did Carl recently say, and what is the motivation behind saying "adios my friend"? Those inside jokes are actually very annoying.

You make a good point that nowhere in the official rules does it say a judgment call can be reversed. Rule 9.02b states that "If there is reasonable doubt that any umpire's decision may be in conflict with the rules, the manager may appeal the decision and ask that a correct ruling be made. Such appeal shall be made only to the umpire who made the protested decision". Rule 9.02c then describes how an umpire should go about making an appeal based on a rules dispute, but neither 9.02b or 9.02c say anything about a judgment call.

I believe the official rules do not mention appealing a judgment call because in theory, the umpire who made the call in the first place is expected to get it right. I cannot even understand why check swings are allowed an appeal, as a capable plate umpire should be able to make that call without help.

Pointing to the plate umpire on a throw to first or tag down the first baseline and saying "was he on?" is a good way of getting help, without actually reversing your call. Some will even say that the base umpire should be able to step into position to see for himself if there was a pulled foot or tag out.

See the NCAA book.

Note that most (all?) of the examples relate to specific occurrences where, for whatever reason, the "non-responsible" official has a better view or sees something not related to the specific judgment that the calling official doesn't see (a ball on the ground during a "tag" for example).

Those "someones" are the coaches and players who consistently complain and argue judgment calls. The motivation behind amf is pretty easy to figure out.........


Tim.

Ask Tim C about his recent adventures with a crew reversing a call! :D

Lets get a few things straight about "going for help".

First, nobody is "required" to do so. An umpire can live or die by his call, just like he has been able to for 150 years or so! The culture is changing though so that an umpire, who has some doubt in his mind because of his position etc... can now get his crew together, get information from the other crew members, and possibly change his call based upon the information he receives from his partners. I first I was reluctant to go along with this, but after I have seen how when used PROPERLY, this new approach has made a lot of calls that would have been wrong, right. Or, it simply reinforced in my mind that I got it right!!! There IS an up side to this! :)

Second, NOT EVERY PLAY REQUIRES THE CREW TO GET TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT IT!!! The CCA manual outlines SPECIFIC scenarios when the crew should get together and talk about a call. I can assure you it is NOT on every tag and force out! The scenarios listed are GOOD reasons for everybody to get together and talk about it and make sure.

Third, this new approach WORKS. Since adopting it properly, it has really cut down on the long arguements about calls made. Coaches are more accepting of calls that the whole crew have agreed upon. Yes, I know for certain that the some calls that are reversed are now the wrong call, but I would say that this new approach has righted FAR more wrong calls than wronged right calls! Easily 50 to 1!!!

It would appear that you don't see a lot of good curve balls and sliders, or, you don't tract the ball with your eyes properly!

So you are saying that the best umpires around, major league umpires, are not "capable"?

:confused: :rolleyes:

He's just yanking your chain, rei. Garth left and Tee posts only occasionally now, so he is looking for new targets to annoy. No big deal.

Unfortunately, I have met others who share his sentiment! And, if you would have seen me the other night, you would thought I would NEVER go for help! LOL :o

I am more than willing to go to my partner ANYTIME the defense asks in any game. It is easier that way. Some guys though haven't got it through their head that the worst thing that can happen is that their partner agrees with the ball call! I will take any strike I can get!!!!

On any pitch, whether it be curves, sliders, or fastballs, I can see both the ball itself as well as the batter's arms, wrists and bat if he makes a check swing. It's one of those calls I feel a plate umpire should not miss in the first place.

Peripheral vision only works so good canada. Do you really think that your wise logic is better than 150 years of what has been proven to work?

Sometimes, you're just too close to the play to tell. Perhaps on a kiddie field when everything moves at 10 mph, PU can get both. But with shaving aged players, sorry, it all happens to fast. I'll do my job and focus on the pitch, my pard can take in the big picture of everything that is happening at the plate much better than I can.

Wow! I guess that I must be doing it all wrong because I go to my partner when asked on a checked swing. I must also be wrong for going to my partner when the batter has 2 strikes and checks his swing and the catcher can't handle the pitch.

But you know what? I don't catch any crap from the coaches or the players and I get very few arguments. And seeing as how this is what is taught in the schools and clinics here in the USA, I'll just stick with this procedure. If I ever officiate North of the boarder, I'll be sure to go to a clinic, eh?

Ozzy - make sure to be ready to ignore 150 years of tried and true mechanics...

Well guys, I never suggested throwing out 150 years of umpiring mechanics. All I'm saying is that I can see the swing/no swing just fine from my position behind the plate. Maybe it's my stance, or distance from the catcher. Whatever the case, I won't hesitate to appeal to my partner if asked to do so by the catcher.

By this statement you're also saying that you've never felt the need to call a strike when an appeal was requested by your PU. Or, for that matter, that you've never had a strike called when you appealed to your partner when you were behind the plate.

Canada, your ability to see every check swing regardless of type of pitch or its location is probably more due to your failure to track the pitch all the way to the catchers glove and use good timing to make your call.

In some situations your attention should be completely focused on the pitch and catchers glove watching him catch the pitch, particularly balls that are low, or in fact even bounce.

Sometimes the reason we do not see the swing is because the catcher does something they should not be doing. Ability has little to do with it.

Peace

please correct me i I am wrong, but have there not been studies done and it been shown scientifically that BU in the B position has a better view to call on a check swing than the PU? I swear I have read that either on this forum or on a link from this forum to the research. Thus not asking for help shows....arrogance and ignorance in the face of science?

:D

Thanks for the tips guys. I never really was sure what the reason was for the checked swing appeal. Now it is more clear.

1) Nobody called you a troll, so why the hostility?

2) You shouldn't be calling names. You don't like it when people call you names. I know, because I've read where you made it clear that you don't like being called names.

3) Adios my friend is a euphamism meaning "adios mother ******." Again, nobody was telling any "inside jokes, or referring to you in any way. Paranoia will destroy ya!:eek:

4) I agree that the PU should get all the check swing calls himself if possible. Sometimes you can't tell, like when the catcher bounces up and screens you out while you are busy tracking the pitch. But the PU should always strive to get the check swing calls himself. But there is nothing to gain by refusing a coach or catcher to ask for help. I hate when a catcher or coach wants me to go for help, especially when I know damn well the batter checked his swing. But as much as it irritates me, it doesn't pay to be beligerent and refuse to ask for help. I just go ahead and ask like I'm supposed to and try not to let my irritation show (not always possible).

I have no problem refusing a ridiculous request. You know the barely take the bat off their shoulder flinch that gets a request. At least under NF Rules it is not an obligation for a PU to ask for a check swing and I adhere to that when necessary. I do not give a rat's “patoot” what the coaches think. I have no problem asking for help if the bat is clearly out there, but not when the request is bogus. NCAA is a different story and is required by the rules.

Peace

I save my annoyances for other situations. I always check with my partner when asked in any game and inside I jump with glee when a partner hands me another strike.

I remember working a game with a crusty old vet back in the early 90s. I was in C and a RH batter clearly offered. FED game. PU refused to come to me and I stood there in C and watched it escalate to an ejection. And another. And a third. Well, I stopped just watching after the first one, but you get the idea.

After the game, I told him that the batter offered. He told me that I can't see that from there. I scratched him that evening.

I can't see any vaild reason not to go to your partner, because it isn't that you didn't rule on the pitch in the first place....you (PU) called it a ball already. Ball calls are detrimental to our desired game outcome.

Appealing can only benefit the PU: He can a) get another strike, and b) if there is any anger about the change, it goes to the BU, not him. No downside here.