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-   -   Game winning plays (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/44737-game-winning-plays.html)

bossman72 Mon May 26, 2008 06:40pm
Game winning plays
 
Situations with 2 outs in the bottom of the last inning and the score tied:

1) Bases loaded and batter hits a single. Must all runners touch their advance base or be subject to appeal?

2) Bases loaded and batter walks. Same question.

3) R1, R3. Batter singles R3 in to win the game. Must BR and R1 touch their advance base?


Thanks

bobbybanaduck Mon May 26, 2008 06:48pm
1. yes
2. no. only the B/R and R3 must advance and touch
3. yes

bob jenkins Mon May 26, 2008 07:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck
2. no. only the B/R and R3 must advance and touch
All must advance in FED (bobby only answers for OBR, so I'm just addign additional information, since the OP didn't specify the code)

canadaump6 Mon May 26, 2008 08:49pm
I thought abandoning the bases was not an appeal play.

Rich Tue May 27, 2008 08:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TussAgee11
as Tee would say, that ties for the dumbest post on the internet, eh?

I'll be nice, is an out called when a fielder tags a base while in possession of the ball before a runner attains that base in a force play situation? (nod your head Canada).

If the runner never goes to touch that base, can he be put out? (nod again)

And, if that out ends up being the 3rd out of the inning, can we have a run scoring? (shake your head)

So, what in the world does this have to do with abandonment? (You're going to have to answer that one, I have no idea where you came up with that).

Yet somehow, Canada, you've inquired on PM to me about ways to get away with defacing a ball while pitching...

Normally, I'd let this pass. But your continual ignorance of the most basic of rules, along with your interest in cheating, has gotten me fed up.
To be fair, a bases-loaded walk is not a "force play". Someone's going to have to abandon there.

Rich Ives Tue May 27, 2008 09:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
To be fair, a bases-loaded walk is not a "force play". Someone's going to have to abandon there.
Really? Coulda fooled me.

mbyron Tue May 27, 2008 09:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
Really? Coulda fooled me.
Technically, yes, the runners are forced to advance by the award to the BR. Still, they have no liability to be put out, so you might say that it's not a "force play."

Isn't it nice when everyone is right? :)

bob jenkins Tue May 27, 2008 10:11am
iirc (and I might not), one of the "authoritative opinions" has it that abandonment is *always* a timing play (not a force out). The defense can then, of course, appeal the out (generally getting the ball and stepping on the base) and the appeal will be granted -- and if this is a force out, then the force out is an "advantageous fourth out."

Rich Tue May 27, 2008 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
Really? Coulda fooled me.
Jeez. If I have to be this precise after a 3-day weekend, I think I'll just pack it in for the day.

Yes, it meets the requirement of 2.00 Force Play. Hooray.

But there is no mechanism to retire the runners WITHOUT ABANDONMENT, which is my point that you ignored from my post. Hold the ball all day there and it's still the abandonment that prompts the umpire to uphold the appeal.

socalblue1 Tue May 27, 2008 05:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
Really? Coulda fooled me.
Rich,

While technically a force play is in effect, a walk is an AWARD. A runner simply needs to advance and touch his next base. Runners are not affected by the actions of following runners, so R3 would score the winning run no matter what the other runners may do.

FED differs on this from OBR & NCAA

Rich Ives Tue May 27, 2008 07:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by socalblue1
Rich,

While technically a force play is in effect, a walk is an AWARD. A runner simply needs to advance and touch his next base. Runners are not affected by the actions of following runners, so R3 would score the winning run no matter what the other runners may do.

FED differs on this from OBR & NCAA
He won't if it's OBR with 2 outs and the B-R refuses to touch 1B. Abandonment is a time play is it not? I also don't think abandonment is appealable.

canadaump6 Tue May 27, 2008 08:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
He won't if it's OBR with 2 outs and the B-R refuses to touch 1B. Abandonment is a time play is it not? I also don't think abandonment is appealable.
I think Bob was making the claim that if a runner abandons with 2 out, AND a runner fails to touch a base, the out recorded from the appeal takes precedence over the out recorded from abandonment.

bluezebra Tue May 27, 2008 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
iirc (and I might not), one of the "authoritative opinions" has it that abandonment is *always* a timing play (not a force out). The defense can then, of course, appeal the out (generally getting the ball and stepping on the base) and the appeal will be granted -- and if this is a force out, then the force out is an "advantageous fourth out."
To be an "advantageous fourth out.", there had to be a third out. Where is it?

Bob

canadaump6 Wed May 28, 2008 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluezebra
To be an "advantageous fourth out.", there had to be a third out. Where is it?

Bob
The third out was the abandonment. The fourth out was the appeal (that a runner failed to touch a base).

socalblue1 Wed May 28, 2008 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
He won't if it's OBR with 2 outs and the B-R refuses to touch 1B. Abandonment is a time play is it not? I also don't think abandonment is appealable.
Rich,

OBR clearly cares less so long as R3 legally advances and touches HP. No appeals, no abandonment. If you just can't get your head around that fine. Be prepared to grab the dirty end with both hands.


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