Base ump showing count on chest.
 

A question of mechanics
A few of the better base umpires U.P. here (and a special umpire from Chicago), relay to me, behind the plate, the running counts on the batter by showing the count tightly in front of their torsos.

I do not reciprocate when I am on the bases.

Should I be showing the count, also?

I always gave the count as a minimum every other pitch and probably for myself more, because I did not use an indicator and it helped me keep it correct. (and not using an indicator at the dish is a different discussion.)

I did not hide it on my chest but make sure it was well displayed in front of my chest for all to see. Some believe the BU should respond with a similar signal but I have always felt that unless you as the BU have something different, just play on. But do make sure you are both on the same page.

Your going to get all different types of responses, but you should follow what your association's practices are or if none, what works best for the team in that game.

I'll only flash the count when requested by the PU (tapping his indicator), or if I think he may have lost it. Sometimes after a play at the plate, or a crazy foul ball, I'll see the PU look at his indicator with a puzzled look. That's when I'll give him the count, on the chest, balls over strikes.

I'll work LL games where every BU gives the count to the PU on every pitch. Rookie stuff. Only when needed guys.

PU is responsible for keeping the count. No indicator on the bases, no flashing the count. Not BU's job.

How about if requested? Would you just tell him it's not your job, or help him out? I don't roll with an indicator on the bases either, but I'd help if he needed it.

I never flash a count back when I am on the bases. I never give the count to a player or coach if asked. I use the following procedure: "TIME! Mr. Umpire, this gentleman (pointing to the player/coach) needs the count!". It is not my job to keep the count or give the count. It is my partner's job and only he should be giving the count. I have CRS so yes, I do have an indicator, but that is for me and me alone. If my partner needs the count from me, I will walk to him and give him what I have. I will not shout it out or stand there flashing the count back. It is just not proper in my book.

I agree with this 100%, except I don't carry an indicator. I do not give the count on the bases, ever. I don't flash the count, ever.

It seems that each has a different opinion on this type of "mechanic", not right or wrong.....Personally, since I rarely call time when: a player slides into a base and asks, .or I need to swipe the plate, ect, (all of which just lengthen the gametime),...I dont believe I'd follow Ozzy's style as both examples just prolong the game, and I dont have a problem w/ telling a player the count, and if the PU silently asks me, I will signal back. Not a big deal to me, and I think its "proper" to keep the game moving. But, to each, his own....

I'll flash back the count as soon as I'm done cleaning off the bases - unless I'm heading to the mound to give the number of outs and situation to the relief pitcher.

My partners never request it. It's covered in our pregame. If PU needs input on the count, he checks with the official book.

"I'll flash back the count as soon as I'm done cleaning off the bases - unless I'm heading to the mound to give the number of outs and situation to the relief pitcher."

Thanks, I needed that touch of humor.

Regards,

Fair enough.

I occasionally work places where the book/and or scoreboard may not be too accurate. Sometimes in our pregames we'll go over these situation, and make sure everyone is on the same page. If the scoreboard is showing 3-1, and the PU's indicator says 2-1, but he just got clocked by a foul ball, he might go to me for a silent confirmation before he corrects the book. Happens all the time.

Are you saying that you consider the scoreboard and the book to be one and the same? I've never had a game in which the scoreboard was operated by the same person keeping the official book.

The only time that I show the count while BU is 3-2 2 out with a runner on base. I've picked this up from pro level umpies. I think it's just a way for all of us to know hey, runner might be/is moving on the pitch, and to hold your ground worry about the ball rather than the runner

That's the coach's job. What happens if somehow you give wrong information?

Bob

Bob - said tongue in cheek. It's been a LONG running gag in here, cleaning bases and giving situations to the pitcher.

PBUC has the guys showing 3-2 every time runners might be moving (i.e. R1; R1, R2; R1, R3 regardless of outs; or R1, R2 R3 2 outs. it shows up in the evals as part of communication.

Reminds me of a time when I had a 2-2 count and my partner told an infielder it was 3-2 and he didn't bother to cover second on the stealing baserunner.

Two ejections later...

There's a REASON the base umpire doesn't answer the infield. It's because, right or wrong, the plate umpire has the official count.

That said, I will incorporate bobbybanaduck's suggestion into my game going forward.

Like Bobby said..... I flash the count as well. I learned it from a AAA friend however one time I failed to tell my partner that I do that in our pregame and he was alittle pissed @ me after the game. He thought I looked like a LL ump. So I try to remember to cover in before my games. I like doing it... it kinda helps me "stay" in the game... a little.

On the bases
 

I am sorry that I do not do things like you all do on this.

If I am on the bases, and I am asked the count by somebody, I will flash them a quick count.

If it is a runner on 2B or F4 or F6, if I am asked I will put my hands behind my back and put the count down so they can see it, but nobody in the stands. The higher level of Baseball I work, I don't need to do it, so I don't. But in HS or below, I would rather answer a kid's question than leave him hanging out to dry because he doesn't know the game situation. And yes, he should know the game situation without it. but, it is better to be helpful than not IMO.

I have never flashed a wrong count to kid who asks, but if I do and the fielder messes something up, then it isn't my fault he can't keep 4 balls/3strikes straight in his head.

That's when I tend to do it because it means the rotations might be different.

Whose fault is it that you can't keep 4 balls/3 strikes straight in your head? ;)

BU should only show count when asked for by PU. PU should show count when count adds up to 3 or 5, or after the balls becomes dead and is put back in play.

How hard would it be to say, "Hey partner, what's the count?"

Why the secrecy?

Why so rigid?

If I have a good scoreboard, I may rarely, if ever, give the count. If I have no scoreboard or one that has proven to be wrong often, I may give it often. Regardless, if I don't give it, it's not like it's my fault if they run at the wrong time or vice versa.

I will be using it on Monday. Hope I remember to tell my partner.

I only show the count if a PU requests and that better only happen one time. Most of the time when I am asked by players or coaches, I tell them to ask the Plate Umpire. That is really not my job and sometimes I might not know if there is a steal or other actions going on.

Peace

"PU should show count when count adds up to 3 or 5, or after the balls becomes dead and is put back in play."

This ties for the dumbest post ever made on the internet.

My Wife. Who's yours? ;)

I don't subscribe to definite when-to's when it comes to the count. I feel this is all part of game management, such as when to clean the plate without having to call time. My style will differ from yours, I'm sure, but if the base ump has to ask me for the count, then one of two things are happening: 1) I'm not managing my game right, or 2) he's not paying attention. There is a rhythm and flow to every game. Find it, establish it, whatever, and you will be allright.

I've always found that as PU the count comes out naturally. I don't have prescribed times that the count is shown, other than on a 3-2 count and it just the first time of a 3-2 count, not after fouled off pitches. Usually there is a lull that you notice that, yeah the count can get shown here, or like on an outside pitch that you track and you show it as you finish coming up. One thing I thing that I try not to do, is show it after a contraversial pitch, it just seems to show somebody up.

It's just a feel thing I think as to when to give it.

One thing I thought of, and I teach to others, is on a check swing appeal, I verbalize "that's a strike/ball" whatever the case may be. then I immediately give the count again. My feeling is that you have your partners back and demonstrate control of the game.

This is the timing prescribed by the Alabama High School Umpire Manual.

That confirm's Tee's post, then. Thanks.

???????? What ???????

I'm not giving the count at 1-0 or 0-1.
If you feel the need to give it after 2 pitches then what stops you from feeling the need to give it after 4? Then good decorum requires you to show it at 3-2. Now you've given the count three times in one at bat. Now that could qualify for a dumb thing.
If you don't want to look like a first grader learning to count on his fingers after every pitch then after 3 and full count is a good rule of thumb.

We've gone 3 pages talking about base umpires and counts.
I think the 3-5 and after dead balls was the first real practical post for newer umps on this thread.

Maybe you should remember that not everyone on the board has been umping for 30 years.

2-1 count ,check swing appeal.

Me: John, did he go?
John: Yes, he went.
Me: That's a strike. 2 balls, 2 strikes

Anything else?

I remember watching Jim Evans umpire. He gave the count after just about every pitch. Kills your theory.

This is just proper mechanics, nothing more.

The line is, "Then it's a strike."

No point in reiterating the ball call, though, since it's what you called in the first place.

????
 

WHO really cares about SOFTBALL?

I thought CO ump provided a decent rule to work by for when to give the count. I prefer to give the count once the pitcher reaches 2 strikes, 3 balls, 2-1, 2-2, 3-2 or 3-1, and after that I won't announce it for another two pitches.

1. It's not a theory, it's a practice.

2. Are you suggesting that all umpires should give the count after every pitch? Sounds like you are.

3. Brand new umpires need a little direction on when to give the count or else they just might be popping it up on every pitch.
3rd and 5th is easy to remember, effecient and quite appropriate. Certainly not the dumbest suggestion on the board

Then you have never umpired in San Diego, California, the cheapo capital of the United States.

We have the U.S. Open at Torrey Pines next month, and this city was too cheap to hire 24 hour security for the course, and it was badly vandalized last week. Totally stupid. It could only happen in America's Cheapest City (but not to live in, mind you...).

What's wrong with saying the count when it's 2 and 2?:confused:

I'm with TimC on this one!

Brand new umpires who need direction on something like this need a lot more help than this.

Who cares if they give the count after every pitch as long as it doesn't seem clunky or robotic?

How so ?

How long do you get suspended for if you wear the wrong brand of pants?

Oh, ok. I was reading it as though you were the BU, thats why I was confused.

I agree.

Generally speaking, I give the count when the batter gets to 2 strikes or 3 balls, first time it is a full count and after a lengthy delay between pitches (stolen base, long fly ball that was foul, mound conference, etc).

And is it true the plate coat was outlawed this year?

Not that I am aware of.

Any reason why the last part of my post was deleted? Just looking for answers. Thanks.

How about using a hockey style mask without a cap underneath?

I wonder how anyone can take anything from those clowns seriously.

I agree with the ridicule of some of our state's regulations, but that is not necessarily a reflection on the umpires themselves.

I give the count when I deem it necessary. Is this really difficult?

Ultimate solution
 

In order to be consistent about this, why don't we ask game management to hire some very attractive young lady, and she can give the count in any manner she likes at any time? Players would certainly look over at her and see the count , so as not to lose track of where the "counter" is. :D