No, I didn't run him
 

In a game where dugouts had LL-style chain-link fences in front of them, I had a doozy.

We had R2, B-R hits safely, an outfielder chucks it homeward, but the throw is errant.

What ho! An arm comes out from the side of the fence and actually catch the bounding, still-live ball. The rock was absolutely in the field of play. The arm belonged to HC of defensive team. I saw the "catch" before my pard did, and immediately killed the play.

I ran in from my spot, furious, ready to toss this cretin. As I get near my pard (an excellent umpire, BTW), he says, "Don't run him, Ace. I'll deal with him."

I stuck around while Pard chewed the guy out, but I remained silent. R2 was awarded home, and we placed B-R on 3B--2 sacks from his spot at the release of the horsehide.

Should I have just stayed on the field and not gone after the guy? Should I have EJed him, despite what Pard said? Your move, gang.

I guess that every time we can avoid an EJ, it's a good thing, but I was fuming. The event remains one of the most knuckleheaded stunts I've ever seen a coach pull in my umpteen years of this avocation.

Ace in CT

Good heads up on your part and I like the way your partner handled it. You may have gotten caught up in the heat of the moment although I wouldn't disagree if you did run him for it. Bottom line, you guys still punished the act severely, chewed him out and saved yourself some paperwork. ;)

Why were you "fuming"? Did that coach attack you personally? Why let your emotions in?..Just make the right ruling and move on.....

Well remember Ace, you've been on the other side of the coin. I seem to recall a story in which your partner informed a coach to stop taking his warm-ups as game time was approaching. The HC replied "I'm getting screwed already!"

Partner was fuming, saying "Let me run em Ace, let me run em". And you talked him out of it.

Chances are if my partner is coming in and taking care of a situation that started with me, I'm probably too pissed to making a good judgment on the situation. That's where my thinking is taking me on this one, but I'm certainly swayable if anybody has some sound advice here.

Were they playing with your ball and think he'd steal it?

:cool:baby.

Wow I hope you're ok. From the way you were wound up I pictured your jock twisting to the point where your doo:eek:dads choked. Calm down, enforce the penality and play ball.

Ace,

As I read (and re-read) your OP...it just seems to me that the HC had a brain fart...nothing to be tossed for.

As I have moved from being "just an umpire" to "umpire and umpire association President" I tend to view these types of posts with two eyes: (1) how would I have handled it if it was me umpiring AND (2) can I (as President) defend "my umpire" with a straight face to a league President who wants to know why "my umpire" (insert: ejected a coach; or made such a ruling; etc.).

As a President of an umpire association I will say this:

Frankly, if one of my umpires did toss this coach after this play and your OP served as my umpire's ejection report...I'd have a tough time defending you to the high school league assistant director for baseball when said assistant director calls me wanting to know why the heck my umpire tossed a coach for simply touching a live ball.

Good move not tossing him (unless there were some other acts committed by the HC that were left out of your OP).

"TIME. THAT'S INTERFERENCE BY THE COACH".

I don't think any coach would want to hear that said loudly. Business is taken care of. Play ball.

A lot of this story is left to our imagination
Was the ball headed to DBT or was it going to hit the fence? Do you think he was trying to gain an advantage or was it just an instinctual move to catch the ball?
If I couldn't judge an intentional purpose to cheat then I have no more than an interference call. Certainly not an ejection. If there was a way for me to know that the coach was trying to cheat then I'd have UC and more than likely an ejection.

In neither case would I go after the guy
But in both cases I would inform him as to why a penalty is being levied.

I don't recall the exact situation, but I did have a basecoach handle a live ball this season. "Time, that's interference". NO biggie, the assitant coach was soundly thrashed by the HC, so any penalty above the out called would have been over kill.

Do not know how old you are ACE but your OP is NOTHING compared to what Woody Hayes did in a bowl game.

In cae you don't know Woody Hayes was the legendary football coach for Ohio State. He punched an opposing player for intercepting a pass.

He was subsequently fired.

Therefore, IMO you need to chill out. Your Partner was doing his job in calming you down. Unless there is more to the story simply impose the penalty and move on.


Pete Booth

Its amazing how many Clemson alumni around here (South Carolina) were at that game! I think the game attendance was 500,000!!! :D

"I ran in from my spot, furious, ready to toss this cretin"

Why would you be furious?

Do you yell at the players when they make a mistake?

Do you enjoy being yelled at by others when you make a mistake or even when you don't?

You, the official, have to keep your emotions in check and be impartial. Stick to the rules and always be professional.

And remember BOTTOM LINE your in control, You have the final say, why sweat the small stuff!!!!!

I have read and reread the rules for NCAA, FED, and OBR and I can't seem to find where it says that Interference is punishable by ejection. I'm sure the coach didn't think he would get away with doing something like that. I mean, the punishment for the INT is severe enough that the coach could not possibly have done this trying to cheat. It sounds like he just had a brain fart and reacted instinctively and grabbed the ball.

I certainly don't see how an umpire could get worked up over something like this, unless this same guy did stupid things like this all the time or something, and you had some history with him. Otherwise, way overreacting to the situation.

Take heed before you cross the bridge, you must read the posted sign.

It says;

Please don't feed the trolls.

Oddly enuff, I had the same partner in both games. A top-notch grad of the Wendelstedt school, he made it up to AA ball before getting passed over.

Ace

Why so nasty?
 

I will never understand the need for some of this group to be overly pointed when they disagree with a poster.

First off, this coach overtly and intentionally interfered. This was not a base coach with a ball in his vicinity, but a guy in a fence-protected dugout. I don't recall how far the HC had to move to accomplish this act, but he had to reach a good arm's length off the side of the fence to do so. The ball would have absolutely stayed live but for the INT.

That's what made me mad.

But I DID listen to my pard, I DID control my emotions, and no EJ happened. I was trying to express that I was fortunate to listen to Pard and no let my emotions take over.

I told the story mainly to communicate a boneheaded move by a coach, and I get a lecture on how to act.

This my 31st season. I do only 20 or so games a year now. I have done LL through summer league with college, alumni and many ex-pro players. No NCAA games, okay?

I have suspended one game due to an entire LL team (plus coaches) who ran amok. This was in my second or thrid season, and I probably handled it poorly.

I have ejected one and half players in this time. The half was a thrown bat and helmet after a K, where the HC and I simultaneously dumped the player. The HC delivered the tongue-lashing. Sorta like a shared sack in football, no?

I have ej-ed exactly three coaches in this time period, so I don't think one could say I have a quick trigger.

I also must say that I respect everyone on this board and appreciate many of the posts. IMHO, however, we get enough slings and arrows from coaches, players, fans and funnel-cake makers.

Why do we jump all over each other (on occasion) with fervor?

Ace in CT

Yup, you're making a mistake responding to these trolls. You're doing exactly what they want you to do...lose your temper. And highlighting their posts just keeps it alive after the mods get rid of the originals.

Let the mods do their job. Just report the trolling. The mods will then eventually take care of these clowns.

Thats why I mostly read and don't post much.

Jurassic do not know about the basketball Forum but it really is a shame in what this Forum has turned into. When first introduced it was one if not thee BEST around.

Now, members like TEE , Garth, Carl Childress et al do not even post anymore. If this Forum continues on it's current path it will probably be tuned into ("son of Mcgrifth's)

Mick and Bob can only do so much.

McGrifths when it was first introduced also was one of the best Umpire Discussion Forums around and look what happend to that site. I believe it's shut down.

I enjoyed Rob Drakes' new site but because of the Major league baseball umpires they shut that site down. You can still look at old threads. Maybe it will re-surface because that Forum was starting to "pick-up steam"

As mentioned I do not know about the Basketball Forum and also what "other" basketball Forums you visit.

Pete Booth

Just keep reporting the posts and they will be taken care of. As you notice, it is all gone now.

Ace,

First of all, you asked us for our opinions. You know that when you ask umpires for their opinions, they don't hold back or pull any punches. I have reread all the posts, and haven't found anyone "jumping all over you." Most of us just find it amazing that a stupid coach could evoke such a reaction in what we've come to know as a pretty level-headed "good guy" such as yourself.

Secondly, if you have only ran 3 coaches and "one and a half" players over a 31 year period, I must say that is a very low tally indeed. Perhaps there were a multitude of occassions in which an ejection was warranted where you didn't pull the trigger. And just maybe that has culminated in a build-up of frustration in you over the years to where you would react in this manner to actually run in from your position all pissed off looking to eject this coach. The fact that the coach "made you mad" by his bonehead actions leads me to believe there is more to it than you reported, and I suspect others feel the same way.

Just sayin'.

Pete, we get the same brand of jerks on the basketball forum. Most if not all of them of them disappear after finding out that their act isn't going to play. None of 'em however seem to be as vindictive and determined to raise havoc as the particular couple of goobers currently infesting this forum. One of the main reasons that I never reveal my identity is people like these. They're truly scary, as Garth found out.

We do go off-topic a lot more over on the basketball forum. 99% of it though is just having a l'il fun with each other, with no one really taking anyone else too seriously or getting that huffy at imagined slights. We argue....and usually then fuggedaboutit.

We used to have some great arguments on basketball over on McGriffs years ago too. Great site at that time, but Gary never bothered or didn't have the time to police it. Damn shame really. The NFHS forum isn't bad at times also , but it's almost seasonal....even though it gets policed well too.

With the disappearance of the main 2 instigators the last few weeks, I thought that this forum really started to show what it could be. It's very informative, and a good read for non-umpires like me that are still interested in the game.

Bob and Mick do a great moderating job here imo. And I say that while probably leading the free world in deleted posts over the years.:) If you report the trolls diligently, they'll get rid of them.....while also still allowing free speech(within reason).

All you can do is keep on keeping on.

Was there other posts in this thread that have been deleted? Certainly we're not getting on Ace for being a "troll". I must be missing something here...

I still think this Forum is valuable and in some ways perhaps more valuable now that "one side" is gone. It has gotten out alot of the bickering, but also we've lost alot of knowledge.

Still, there is some knowledge here, you just have to know where to look. Those that left were not "special" in any way, they just knew their avocation very well and could give sound advice.

Surely somebody else could do the same. This forum's still alright in my book. You just have to weed out the idiots and not get worked up by them. The past week we've had better threads than when all the fighting was going on, so that's a plus.

As explained in this thread, you have a dead ball, Interference, and place the runners as you did, correctly. I think many of us would like to hear from you concerning why you were furious, and wanted to dump him. Do you have past issues between the 2 of you? As you move on to higher level baseball, your Game Mgt skills become more critical and Handling situations will how your reputation is molded. Keep your emotions under control and remember that Umpires do not eject players and managers, Players and MGR's eject themselves